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gs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:32 am Post subject: mqseries.net friendliness Reply with quote

Master

Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 254
Location: Sweden

As I now work more technically with the WebSphere stack once again I naturally return to mqseries.net to find solutions to my issues. Either by asking questions or finding other posts about the same issue.
The site is a superb source of information and with extremely skilled & knowledgeable users BUT the tone seems to have changed for the worse through the years.

When troubleshooting there may often be cases when you get stuck. There may be something you've simply overlooked, haven't found the right page in the infocenter or any other reason not involving you being lazy and looking for an easy answer.

Maybe a good starting point when replying to a question could be to assume the above and then either:
- Not reply at all. If the question is trivial for you and annoying you, move on and let somebody else answer the question. I do from time to time go through the unanswered posts list and respond if I feel I can contribute. However, most questions have already been answered by someone from a group of very active and skilled forum users.
- Reply with something constructive in a friendly manner

What are your thoughts on this?


Last edited by gs on Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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mqjeff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:40 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand Master

Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447

I think that everyone has their own opinions on this.

I think I've expressed my own opinions, and the reasons behind them, five or six times, and I think those opinions have changed, and I think my own actions based on those opinions have changed.

In general, the only way to change how this forum behaves is to participate.
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exerk
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:43 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Council

Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6109

gs, you make some valid points and there has been some off-line discussion on this between some of the mods, 'power' responders, and site admin.

I am guilty myself of short and snappy answers at times, but in my defence the manner of my answer very much depends on whether it's a case of "...I've tried everything, searched everywhere, and still don't understand where I'm going wrong...", or whether it's "...I need to install BlockIP2, tell me how...".

There is a very good How To Ask Questions The Smart Way post in the Read First for All New to WebSphere forum that should help posters, whether first time or old hands.

For my part, I will attempt to self-moderate and be less seemingly abrasive - but I do have a day job and sometimes that causes brevity of response.
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Vitor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:57 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand High Poobah

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 25855
Location: Texas, USA

The tone has changed over the years, but so has the proporition of questions where there's no evidience that the poster is (as you put it) stuck but is simply looking to be told how to do something.

Back in the day, this was a technical forum where you went when you were stuck, or needed advice, as a last or near last resort. Now we seem to be a first port of call for the time challenged and the inexperienced. Yes, the tone changes but you answer simple questions for 7 years and your tone will change too.

It's certainly unhelpful to just suggest posters attend training courses, but is it more "friendly" to simply not reply to this kind of basic question?

In addition to the "How to ask questions the smart way", there's also some guideline points in the Read First section that someone wrote, and I wish more of the newbie posters would follow & understand.
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bruce2359
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:49 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Poobah

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 8525
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.

Tone and friendliness here run in cycles. If any defense is possible for rude behavior, I offer that of expectations.

I expect from my neurosurgeon, the fellow at the yoke of the aircraft I'm about to board, firefighters and police, skill first, and friendliness last.

We're volunteers here. Many/most have full-time jobs. Most are happy to help, and will go far beyond meeting half-way those that seek help with MQ. Some fail to recognize that a written attempt at humor may be read with different meaning than that intended. Sarcasm is seldom appreciated.

To those that seem to lack basic WMQ skills, I often recommend taking a training class. Guilty as charged. Nothing beats hands-on training. If management will not train you, you are doomed to fail. Failure is not career-enhancing.
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Vitor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:24 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand High Poobah

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 25855
Location: Texas, USA

bruce2359 wrote:
To those that seem to lack basic WMQ skills, I often recommend taking a training class. Guilty as charged.


I think there are more guilty than you
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gs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:27 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Master

Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 254
Location: Sweden

Vitor wrote:

Back in the day, this was a technical forum where you went when you were stuck, or needed advice, as a last or near last resort. Now we seem to be a first port of call for the time challenged and the inexperienced. Yes, the tone changes but you answer simple questions for 7 years and your tone will change too.


But do you feel that you need to answer the question, no matter how lazy or vague it may be? It takes less energy and time to leave it be, a fair reaction to a post in violation of guidelines on how to ask questions the smart way. Eventually someone else may respond to the thread.

Vitor wrote:

It's certainly unhelpful to just suggest posters attend training courses, but is it more "friendly" to simply not reply to this kind of basic question?
In addition to the "How to ask questions the smart way", there's also some guideline points in the Read First section that someone wrote, and I wish more of the newbie posters would follow & understand.


I think it would be more friendly to point the posters in the right direction on how to post questions the right way. Maybe a link to http://www.mqseries.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22295 for example.
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Vitor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:35 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand High Poobah

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 25855
Location: Texas, USA

gs wrote:
Vitor wrote:

Back in the day, this was a technical forum where you went when you were stuck, or needed advice, as a last or near last resort. Now we seem to be a first port of call for the time challenged and the inexperienced. Yes, the tone changes but you answer simple questions for 7 years and your tone will change too.


But do you feel that you need to answer the question, no matter how lazy or vague it may be?


I feel it's friendlier / more polite to respond in some way rather than just ignore posters; I'll be guided by the will of the majority in this. I always felt that simply ignoring posts gave the impression I'm sitting in an ivory tower answering questions that "interest" me and not caring about the little people. Despite some appearances to the contrary, I do participate in this forum to help.

gs wrote:
Eventually someone else may respond to the thread.


And if they give poor, misleading or ill-informed advice?

Or should I just avoid simple stuff and stick to the interesting questions?

gs wrote:
I think it would be more friendly to point the posters in the right direction on how to post questions the right way. Maybe a link to http://www.mqseries.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22295 for example.


That's as bad as posting links to training courses. If they've searched the forum for an answer, seen this thread and still not posted "wisely" then reposting the link won't help. If they didn't look in the forum before posting, reposting the link won't help.
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gs
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:27 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Master

Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 254
Location: Sweden

bruce2359 wrote:
Tone and friendliness here run in cycles. If any defense is possible for rude behavior, I offer that of expectations.

I expect from my neurosurgeon, the fellow at the yoke of the aircraft I'm about to board, firefighters and police, skill first, and friendliness last.

We're volunteers here. Many/most have full-time jobs. Most are happy to help, and will go far beyond meeting half-way those that seek help with MQ.


I'm grateful, impressed (even astonished) of the knowledge level, speed and helpfulness that this forum provides. But I certainly don't take that for granted, I don't see why anyone should and I'm fully understandable if a question is left unanswered due to its wording or other reasons.

There may be people who act differently and expect some kind of service level from this forum. I haven't really experienced that but that may be the case?

bruce2359 wrote:

Some fail to recognize that a written attempt at humor may be read with different meaning than that intended. Sarcasm is seldom appreciated.


Yeah, I try to avoid that due to cultural differences and untranslatability between body language / voice tone and the written word.
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Vitor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:35 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand High Poobah

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 25855
Location: Texas, USA

gs wrote:
There may be people who act differently and expect some kind of service level from this forum. I haven't really experienced that but that may be the case?


I've seen people who ping their own unanswered threads with "please help" an hour after posting. If memory serves, @smdavies99 has been forced to remind people about Columbus Day and other American holidays where response time drops.
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Insanity is the best defence.


Last edited by Vitor on Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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mqjeff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:42 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand Master

Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447

Vitor wrote:
gs wrote:
There may be people who act differently and expect some kind of service level from this forum. I haven't really experienced that but that may be the case?


I've seen people who ping their own unanswered threads with "please help" an hour after posting.


And two hours after that, and the next day, and three days later.
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bruce2359
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:49 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Poobah

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 8525
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.

mqjeff wrote:
Vitor wrote:

I've seen people who ping their own unanswered threads with "please help" an hour after posting.


And two hours after that, and the next day, and three days later.

Perhaps this is the sarcasm (cynicism) to which the OP refers.
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mqjeff
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:01 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand Master

Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447

bruce2359 wrote:
mqjeff wrote:
Vitor wrote:

I've seen people who ping their own unanswered threads with "please help" an hour after posting.


And two hours after that, and the next day, and three days later.

Perhaps this is the sarcasm (cynicism) to which the OP refers.


Is it?

Or is it a simple statement of experiential fact?

Or is it an example of exaggeration for an intended humorous effect?

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Vitor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:01 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand High Poobah

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 25855
Location: Texas, USA

bruce2359 wrote:
mqjeff wrote:
Vitor wrote:

I've seen people who ping their own unanswered threads with "please help" an hour after posting.


And two hours after that, and the next day, and three days later.

Perhaps this is the sarcasm (cynicism) to which the OP refers.


Not in every case....
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bruce2359
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:45 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Poobah

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 8525
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.

mqjeff wrote:
bruce2359 wrote:
mqjeff wrote:
Vitor wrote:

I've seen people who ping their own unanswered threads with "please help" an hour after posting.


And two hours after that, and the next day, and three days later.

Perhaps this is the sarcasm (cynicism) to which the OP refers.


Is it?

Or is it a simple statement of experiential fact?

Or is it an example of exaggeration for an intended humorous effect?


Yes, yes, and yes.
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