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| aradha |
 Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:12 am Post subject: How to change the Queue Persistence NO to YES |
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Apprentice
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 45
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| hi how to change the persistence for the queue.. |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:19 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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Two very easy steps...
1. Read the relevant manual.
2. Do as the manual says.
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| aradha |
| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:28 am Post subject: |
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Apprentice
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 45
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| which manual i have to fallow can you send that then i can look for tht |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:35 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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Look at my tag line, it will give you a clue where to look, also go and have a look HERE 
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| fschofer |
| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:24 am Post subject: Re: How to change the Queue Persistence NO to YES |
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Knight
Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 524
Location: Mainz, Germany
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| aradha wrote: |
| hi how to change the persistence for the queue.. |
Hi,
by the way its the default persistence which is only used if the putting application does not specify what it wants.
Better change you application to create persistence messages.
Greetings
Frank |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9470
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| Quote: |
| by the way its the default persistence which is only used if the putting application does not specify what it wants. |
Not exactly.
The initial value of the persistence field of the MQMD is MQPER_PERSISTENCE_AS_Q_DEF, meaning that the message is to take on the persistence value setting of the queue attribute. The initial value of the queue attribute is non-persistent.
The MQMD must have one of these values for persistence:
1. MQPER_PERSISTENT
2. MQPER_NOT_PERSISTENT
3. MQPER_PERSISTENCE_AS_Q_DEF
If the MQMD persistence field is not one of these, the MQPUT fails. Persistence is not a default. There are near zero defaults in MQ. There are initial values - that may or may not make sense for you.
It is unfortunate that the MQ factory uses names like SYSTEM.DEFAULT.LOCAL.QUEUE. With the word DEFAULT, a novice assumption would be that this queue would be used as a default if some other queue was unavailable. They should have named it SYSTEM.TEMPLATE.LOCAL.QUEUE. Whoa! It's a template, not a default.
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Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| fschofer |
| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Knight
Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 524
Location: Mainz, Germany
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Hi,
still the queue parameter is called DEFPSIST and aradha asked for the queue not the MQMD.
Greetings
Frank |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:23 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9470
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| Quote: |
| still the queue parameter is called DEFPSIST and aradha asked for the queue not the MQMD. |
Yes, but messages are persistent or non-persistent, queues are neither.
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| aradha |
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Apprentice
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 45
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Yes i asked for Queue parameters
i think we can alter the queue properties and set them |
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| WMBDEV1 |
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:06 am Post subject: |
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Sentinel
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 888
Location: UK
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| aradha wrote: |
Yes i asked for Queue parameters
i think we can alter the queue properties and set them |
Ok, ill bite.....
Not withstanding all the good points that others have made about queues not being persistant, I really dont get why people wish to rely on the default persitence of a queue.
Either data loss can be tolerated or it cant. This context is modelled by the application. Relying on the default persistence of a queue is like saying "I know i've got this really critical business data and we must not lose it, but rather than guaranteeing the data is not lost ill let an MQAdmin decide if it really is important to the business or not".
Sorry for biting, just my thoughts. |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| WMBDEV1 wrote: |
| aradha wrote: |
Yes i asked for Queue parameters
i think we can alter the queue properties and set them |
Ok, ill bite.....
Not withstanding all the good points that others have made about queues not being persistant, I really dont get why people wish to rely on the default persitence of a queue.
Either data loss can be tolerated or it cant. This context is modelled by the application. Relying on the default persistence of a queue is like saying "I know i've got this really critical business data and we must not lose it, but rather than guaranteeing the data is not lost ill let an MQAdmin decide if it really is important to the business or not".
Sorry for biting, just my thoughts. |
Singing off the same hymn sheet...relying on the queue definition means that today's persistent message is tomorrow's non-persistent message. A good developer (Hopsala, you out there?) will always allow the 'customer' to decide whether they want to have explicit persistence, explicit non-persistence, or 'flippable' by relying on the queue attributes. That's what I recommend when I am doing developer support 
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:49 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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This is a hymm which has been sung many times on the forum, and there's no "right" answer. The 2 verses go something like this:
"Only the application knows if data loss can be tolerated so the application must set persistence"
"If the application is allowed to decided persistence, then all messages will be persistent because developers think their messages are critical"
I repeat that IMHO there's no right answer; it depends on the site, how good code QA is, if design is controlled via the application or the software, etc, etc.
But a search will turn up many attempts to find a right answer!
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| WMBDEV1 |
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Sentinel
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 888
Location: UK
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| Vitor wrote: |
"If the application is allowed to decided persistence, then all messages will be persistent because developers think their messages are critical"
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I personally dont believe this to be true.
Developers worth their salt should be able to understand the context of the data and whether its persistent or not. I have previously raised defects when search requests have been incorrectly set as persistent. I expect this sort of stuff to be checked in system test with defects raised accordingly. |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| Vitor wrote: |
"Only the application knows if data loss can be tolerated so the application must set persistence"
"If the application is allowed to decide persistence, then all messages will be persistent because developers think their messages are critical" |
Which is why I argue that it should be set in a configuration file...
...29 to go!
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:15 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| WMBDEV1 wrote: |
| I personally dont believe this to be true. |
I've personally seen this. One application team lead told me to my face, "all our messages are persistent because if they weren't important we wouldn't send them".
| WMBDEV1 wrote: |
| Developers worth their salt should be able to understand the context of the data and whether its persistent or not. |
Who are these people? How many developers understand the context of their application never mind the data, and how many write the code according to the specification they're given within time & budget?
| WMBDEV1 wrote: |
| I expect this sort of stuff to be checked in system test with defects raised accordingly. |
System test picks up that everything is persistent & the queue manager logs need to be resized? Your system test, like your developers, are of a much higher calibre than I seem to encounter.
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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