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| Discussion \ A new approach |
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| hopsala |
 Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:58 pm Post subject: Discussion \ A new approach |
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Guardian
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 960
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When I got up this morning, I had the necessary three prerequisites for a new post all complied: Some spare time, a healthy MQSeries.net addiction, and an idea; And this time ( ) I think it's a GOOD idea.
(this may or may not have been offered or even executed in the past, but I do not see it in mainstream action today)
The idea is simple: I think about 80% of replies is just repetition of something already explained in past threads; the trouble is, some of these past threads contain better explanation than others, and after a while one loses track of the really good ones. So what I propose, is that we open a few threads, each on a known given topic (did anyone say, triggering?) and post there links to really good posts explaning the topic. This would also contain comments, such as "Dead letter queue handler - a primer" or "Dead letter queue handler - writing your own", or "advanced topics" etc. Thus creating sort of a knowledge dictionary, for the use of all (even us).
From thence on, whenever someone participates in a thread, that he finds truely useful and ground-breaking, or just has a very good explanation, he will post the link to it in the relevant topic thread, thus saving it for posterity. And whenever someone asks a question about, say, COAs, we just give him the link to the "reports" thread.
I would also like to emphesize, that these will contain both advanced topics and more common ones, so that we all benefit, not just the newbies.
Before embarking onwards, I thought i'd use the collective intelligence to crystalize the idea, so onwards to specifics - I was thinking of the following topics:
1. Triggering
2. Dead letter queue and handler
3. SDR-RCVR Channels and XMITQs
4. Client channels, CHLTAB, SVRCONNs etc
5. Monitoring WMQ
6. Reports
7. CorrlId, MsgId (with a stickie for Eddie - "These are BYTE fields!"  )
8. Message grouping
9. The begginer MQAdmin - what to read, where to look.
10. Common problems (2058, 2059)
11. Local security - setmqaut
12. Client security (MCAUSER etc)
13. SSL channels
14. Performance tuning
15. WMQ Internals
16. Logging and recovery (sheesh, almost forgot this one!)
(there will be one thread which contains links to all topic threads)
maybe we should decide on a common structure, for example that every thread should have one "introduction to topic" link, one "mechanism explained" etc, but i'm not sure about this.
Naturally, I can't do this all myself, and I don't want to; nor do we need to fills these threads with content for the now. As time progresses, we shall add good threads to the lists, and it will hopefully become a usefull tool.
What I offered here is just for WMQ, if this works, we should probably do the same for WBI (for example I just re-raised an *excellent* thread called Lots of Execution Groups?; i'd hate to see such posts sink into oblivion).
This may look like some sort of project, but it isn't, it's just a matter of opening these threads (which I will be more than happy to do) and if anyone has something real good to add, he is welcome. We may need some moderation if someone posts anything but links there, but that's it.
That's it, awaiting commentry! |
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| wschutz |
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 3316
Location: IBM (retired)
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Boy, someone becomes a Grand master and gets lots of fancy new ideas....
Anyways, these threads should have their own topic (like FAQs) and be at the top of the home page with a "read here first" in large letters, otherwsie we'll still get:
| Quote: |
| I'm running a program and getting a 2033, please tell me whats wrong now! |
Its a good starter list, even if there are overlaps, it's not a problem since they are only links.
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-wayne |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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Are we any bit sure that stickies do any good?
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I am *not* the model of the modern major general. |
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| RogerLacroix |
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 3253
Location: London, ON Canada
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| jefflowrey wrote: |
| Are we any bit sure that stickies do any good? |
Hummm.... lets see. In this forum, there are 7 sticky posts.
- 2 for the June 2004 T&M Conference (2004!!! not even 2005)
- 2 related to vendors
- 2 for FAQs
- 1 for making a donation to mqseries.net
I think it would be far easier for newbies if 4 of those stickies were removed.
My 2 cents
Regards,
Roger
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Capitalware: Transforming tomorrow into today.
Connected to MQ!
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| Mr Butcher |
| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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Padawan
Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 1716
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i like the idea. it is like a faq.
if this faq it is done within threads in the forum then there must be someone that is "moderating" these threads. he has to take care that there are only links and faq information, no diskussion.
as an alternate faqs could be created that contain the links.
but in any case, every faq thead / topic should have a "sponsor" that creates it and keep it up-to-date.
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Regards, Butcher |
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| hopsala |
| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:41 am Post subject: |
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Guardian
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 960
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| Mr Butcher wrote: |
| if this faq it is done within threads in the forum then there must be someone that is "moderating" these threads. he has to take care that there are only links and faq information, no diskussion. |
This is not a FAQ per-se, since it is not a coherent document written for newbies but simply a list of links, and as I said it will have many advanced topics that are definitely not Frequently Asked...
And yes, from time to time some house cleaning would be required - In a week or so i'll open one such thread, and see how it goes; POC y'know.
| jefflowrey wrote: |
| Are we any bit sure that stickies do any good? |
That's part of the point, stickies are no good at all, no one looks at them; and besides, they do not contain MQ knowledge but only "how to post" and "where are the manuals" reference, my idea leans elsewhere.
If you're saying that the list of "topic threads" (the link to the list of links) should be a sticky, you're probably right; indeed some help from moderators will be required from time to time, but not much. |
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| javagate |
| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:17 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 159
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DING DING DING....... Create a topic/thread for every possibile topic opened.... No new ones.  What a concept. Lets create an idea to limit the use of mqseries.net.
P.S...
Never mind the high gas prices. Bird Flu - Work from home! |
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| sebastianhirt |
| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:34 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 620
Location: Germany
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I like that idea hop, and if we decide to do so, I would volunteer on helping to create it.
I was thinking about this for a long while, and wanted to put some newbie guides on my homepage, but never found the time to actually write them. |
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| nathanw |
| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:22 am Post subject: |
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Knight
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 550
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Part of the problems with quereies is that everyone is subtley differnt.
In the past I have carried out searches on a problem and found solutions but when you get X thousand entries back from a search no matter how you refine it sometimes it is a matter of ploughing through alot of responses.
If people are not patient enough to do this then they post a thread.
I like the idea for users either new or old to be able to look up a list of proposed solutions and it would help reduce the number of basic questions I amsure.
Maybe in conjuction if it is possible we could re vamp the search utility to allow for more in depth searches? |
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| Michael Dag |
| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 2602
Location: The Netherlands (Amsterdam)
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| nathanw wrote: |
I like the idea for users either new or old to be able to look up a list of proposed solutions and it would help reduce the number of basic questions I amsure.
Maybe in conjuction if it is possible we could re vamp the search utility to allow for more in depth searches? |
so let's do some statistical analysis of the newbie posts and come up with a top 10 in each category.
WMQ Top 10 questions
WMB Top 10 questions
API Top 10 ...
etc...
combined with a bigger search button... (who knows if that does the trick)
and maybe a custom popup for each forum when a newbie (let's say < 10 posts) hits the post new button...
newcomers are great, it's shows MQ is getting more and more mainstream on the other hand even Jeff must get bored one day answering all these 2035, 2033, etc type questions
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Michael
MQSystems Facebook page |
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7717
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| Michael Dag wrote: |
combined with a bigger search button... (who knows if that does the trick) |
If the Search Button was the same size and right next to the Post New Topic button, instead of being in tiny print at the top corner, I am sure it would get used more.
_________________
Peter Potkay
Keep Calm and MQ On |
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| jangochi |
| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 14
Location: UK
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Instead of thinking about changing "search" what if put some standards for raising a question? i.e, if I want 2 give a subject for my question, I can select only in a particular format. If that's the case, if I want to search for iSeries problem, the format should be like
iSeries/Qmgr/connection error <erro no>/.
If I give a search for this it will straight away list all the previous discussions matching this. At present, anyone can select description of his/her choice and in effect search is rendered ineffective. Drop downs(with an option to enter anything not in drop down) could help us in this. The option to enter something other than drop down can be used in cases when the newbies(like me  ) cannot find a category that could be related to his/her problem/query.
The idea by hopsala is commendable indeed and if minnows can be of any help in this effort, count on me as well.
Thanks....Jangochi.. |
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| nathanw |
| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:51 am Post subject: |
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Knight
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 550
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| Michael Dag wrote: |
newcomers are great, it's shows MQ is getting more and more mainstream on the other hand even Jeff must get bored one day answering all these 2035, 2033, etc type questions |
personally I love jeffs responses
having been on the wrong end a couple of times myself
BUT it does go to show that people do not actually read the forums etc
Jeff does deserve a big hand for his reponses tho
| PeterPotkay wrote: |
| Michael Dag wrote: |
combined with a bigger search button... (who knows if that does the trick) |
If the Search Button was the same size and right next to the Post New Topic button, instead of being in tiny print at the top corner, I am sure it would get used more. |
have to agree with Peter though BUT i think the search layout of teh page is defaulted by the template unless Brandon et al can change the template???? |
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| hopsala |
| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:39 am Post subject: |
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Guardian
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 960
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| Michael Dag wrote: |
WMQ Top 10 questions
WMB Top 10 questions |
The first topic thread (let us, from now on, call it a TT, agreed?) that i'm planning on will be the triggering TT, so I think the list of questions will go something like:
1. "How does triggering work?"
Thus, I don't we should go about this in question-answer method, but in a more general approach of "hey, this post explains triggering like no other, maybe i'll add it to the list, along with a short description of what it contains".
In my initial post I do plan to link to posts that tackle the main questions ("non trigger message", "runmqtrm doesn't work" "what to choose -- EVERY/FIRST/DEPTH" etc), but the it will not be a full list, if someone finds a good post, he is free to add it - that's the whole idea. This with a healthy avoidance of duplicates, I hope...
From time to time, some re-organization will be necessary, but let's wait and see how it goes. |
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| hopsala |
| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:44 am Post subject: |
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Guardian
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 960
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| Michael Dag wrote: |
| newcomers are great, it's shows MQ is getting more and more mainstream on the other hand even Jeff must get bored one day answering all these 2035, 2033, etc type questions |
It's not only jeff that's getting tired with these questions, but all of us - me, nigel, peter, fjb, wayne, bower, eddie, roger and more (apologies if I forgot someone) - all of the main "help the newbie" posters . See nigels latest response Messages are stuck up to understand what I mean by worn out, and due to no fault of his own. Lately i've been finding myself screening idiotic questions, telling myself that someone else will handle it...
We have to keep in mind, that this is not a popularity contest - if there's another site who wishes to answer all newbies on earth, let them all pick up their users and go to that promised land, we have what is probably the best MQAdmin pool online right here with us, and though we are happy to help, inane questions do not contribute anything to this forum.
It's not that I don't like newbies, I love 'em (peace! ) but newbie does not imply "a person who refuses to solve things on his own or read the manuals" that's not greeness, that's just poor IT abilities. |
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