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| PisgahMan |
 Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:24 am Post subject: FDL design tools other than Buildtime |
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Voyager
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 93
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What tools are availible to generate or show FDL, other than Buildtime. In my limited experience I think buildtime is terrible. Seems like the most important thing is the data mappings, and that screen is a nightmare to read. Also it would be nice if I could expand the whole model to view all subprocesses and blocks on the same screen. (I have alot of blocks)
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| CHF |
| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 16 Dec 2003
Posts: 297
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As far as I know, only other tool to build FDL is IBM WBI Workbench (HOLOSOFX).
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| if I could expand the whole model to view all subprocesses and blocks on the same screen. |
This is NOT possible in Workbench also
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| PisgahMan |
| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Voyager
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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| is Holosofx better than Buildtime? |
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| CHF |
| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 16 Dec 2003
Posts: 297
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YES. Far better than Buildtime as it comes to modeling. The only thing, that is bad in HOLOSOFX compared to Buildtime, is that the Validation of the process model is good in Buildtime.
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| praveenchhangani |
| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 192
Location: Chicago, IL
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To my knowledge there are no third party or IBM supported tools that would assist in the generation of FDL for this purpose. Part of the reason for this is perhaps due to the architecture design of the IBM workflow engine and layout.
As you might be aware that it follows the notion of a buildtime and a runtime concept which have separate databases. Hence for purposes of keeping both the buildtime and runtime in synch, IBM recommends that you use the buildtime/wbi modeler product to generate FDL with regards to staff changes.
For example: If you were to add a user John Smith from Buildtime and install him in the runtime database, and then use another tool to remove him using (i.e. a Java program that performs similar system out's as buildtime would), then it is indeed true that John will be successfully been removed from the runtime database, however now when you look back your buildtime staff still shows John as being in the runtime database, when in fact your custom program deleted him - long story short... it leads to the insynch of buildtime and runtime.
Another thing about the Buildtime product in my opinion is that it requires an acquired taste. Once you get used to it, and are able to forgive some of it's weaknesses, it is a solid product.
FYI:
The WBI Modeler(IBM) has some more features than the buildtime product as it also has functionality for simulation testing, exporting in various format's etc.
Hope this helps. Good Luck.
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Praveen K. Chhangani,
IBM Certified Solutions Designer -
MQ Workflow 3.4. |
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| PisgahMan |
| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| I heard that WBI Modeler and Buildtime have Incompatible coordinate systems, so importing FDL from one to the other is a nightmare. |
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| CHF |
| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 16 Dec 2003
Posts: 297
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Unfortunately thats TRUE  .
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| Ratan |
| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 1245
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| Quote: |
YES. Far better than Buildtime as it comes to modeling. The only thing, that is bad in HOLOSOFX compared to Buildtime, is that the Validation of the process model is good in Buildtime.
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Just my Opinions (I can be completely wrong):
For a business analyst, WBI Workbench is better. For a Workflow Technical guy, I feel Buildtime is better.
If you are a Workflow technical guy, I dont see any advantage modelling in WBi Modeller unless you are using WBI Monitor and want to define business measures.
Personally I hate Modelling in WBI Modeller.
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-Ratan |
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| PisgahMan |
| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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| I'd be happy if the modeler has a more readable screen for datamappings. |
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| CHF |
| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:25 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 16 Dec 2003
Posts: 297
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Ratan,
I totally agree with you. No complaints. And also it is my opinion that, the more we use a particular tool, the more we like it ( I mean easy to use it). And coming to the point of using these tools purely for Workflow, the way I see them are, both are identical except differ in their graphical presentation ( I could be wrong too).
Anyways thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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| Ratan |
| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
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As I said. "Just My Opinion".
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-Ratan |
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| jmac |
| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 27 Jun 2001
Posts: 3081
Location: EmeriCon, LLC
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| PisgahMan wrote: |
| I'd be happy if the modeler has a more readable screen for datamappings. |
It is my opinion that the data mapping dialog in Buildtime is BETTER than that in Modeler (just my opinion).
I totally agree with Ratan, BT is a the tool for the MQWF Develoer, WBI Modeler is the tool for the Business Analyst.
There are also things that Can not be done with Modeler, that will force you to use BT. Not things you need all the time, but 100% compatbility is not a true statement.
You will also find that the new IBM developed Modeler 5.1 will require you to use the BuildTime editor of your Runtime Environment. I.e BT if you are developing for MQWF, and WASIDE if you are developing for WPC. So it appears that IBM is saying that they feel the Modeler is a BA tool.
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John McDonald
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| jmac |
| Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 27 Jun 2001
Posts: 3081
Location: EmeriCon, LLC
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| CHF wrote: |
| As far as I know, only other tool to build FDL is IBM WBI Workbench (HOLOSOFX) |
Just FYI, there is another tool ARIS that can generate FDL. See the supportpac WA72. The tool is not used much in the US, but as far as I know it is still available
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John McDonald
RETIRED |
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