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| rsk33 |
 Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:54 pm Post subject: F5 and MQ Cluster |
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Centurion
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 141
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Hi
we have F5 before two MQ servers(active, active) carrying out mainly the failover and no load balancing due to session may connect to other server when it is expected the response.( i was told that there is sticky session to avoid this and i suppose it is also having problems). when advised to use MQ cluster, the management wants F5 with no additional MQ server/QMGR and set up the MQ cluster. Help/advise is highly appriciated, how can i use F5 and and MQ Cluster without any additional mq layer.
regards |
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| rsk33 |
| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:30 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 141
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Hi
can i have expert advise...
regards |
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:20 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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What do the people who sell and support the F5 say on the matter?
Does the world end if you have to do some additional setup etc on the MQ side of things?
Are you going to try a few things out for yourself? You are going to have to do that just in case.... We all know how making untested changes to Prod works out in the long run?
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WMQ User since 1999
MQSI/WBI/WMB/'Thingy' User since 2002
Linux user since 1995
Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:48 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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What does it mean to set up an MQ cluster without an additional MQ layer?
What does the F5 have to do with whether queue managers are members of a cluster or not?
What's the use case that management wants to fulfill by creating an MQ cluster?
What does the person on your team who is more senior than you say when you discuss this with them? |
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| rsk33 |
| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:59 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 141
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Thanks for the response..
As per the documentation F5 as given below. we tried work around that the response is available in both the mq servers so that F5 can have the response message set with some expiry even if the session disconnects and connect to other server. It is also made the f5 sessions are sticky so that it it connects to the same server.
But this is not exact load balancing what is expected... I und
erstand that it is difficult/not possible to act as load balancer with F5. Before i conclude that i want to confirm with in the forum.
NOTES:
1. Some types of applications may not work well with IP load balancer with WMQ.
(a) Client applications expecting a response from the same queue manger where the request was sent. For example, a client application sends a request to a queue manager and expects a response from the same queue manager. If the client disconnects before getting a response from a queue in a specific queue manager and if the subsequent connection request goes to a different queue manager then the client will not get the response it was expecting.
(b) An application which makes two connections, one for put and one for get could go to different queue managers.
(c) Transactional (XA) Clients are not supported with load balancers unless all possible back-ends are within one z/OS Queue Sharing Group (QSG). Any other non-z/OS platforms environments are not supported because the queue manager does not support XA Clients when load balanced.
regards |
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| rsk33 |
| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:08 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 141
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hi mqjeff..
Thanks for the response..
additional mq layer i mean creating gateway queue manager after f5 and before two mq servers and set up the mq cluster.
F5 will communicate with the gateway....
regards |
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| Gaya3 |
| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:06 am Post subject: |
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Jedi
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 2493
Location: Boston, US
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| rsk33 wrote: |
hi mqjeff..
Thanks for the response..
additional mq layer i mean creating gateway queue manager after f5 and before two mq servers and set up the mq cluster.
F5 will communicate with the gateway....
regards |
Creating the gw queue manager is not going to the right result
i persume this is what you are trying to achieve -
---> QMGR1
VIP -->
---> QMGR2
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Gayathri
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Do Something Before you Die |
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| rsk33 |
| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 141
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hi gayathri,
i did not get you... can you elaborate. Our WAS server client is communicating to MQ servers through F5.
regards |
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| Gaya3 |
| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Jedi
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 2493
Location: Boston, US
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| rsk33 wrote: |
hi gayathri,
i did not get you... can you elaborate. Our WAS server client is communicating to MQ servers through F5.
regards |
did you get a chance to look in to connection list in your WAS JMS QCF
we do have datapower connecting to 2 qmgrs using F5
i dont know if you get a chance to look in to Virtual IP configuration part
to add a point - connectionlist - it will connect to the primary queue manager all the time,
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Regards
Gayathri
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Do Something Before you Die |
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| rsk33 |
| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 141
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Hi,
Even without datapower, MQ client connections can act as failover and load balancing with CCDT. With WAS JMS client connectivity i need to check.The issue is using F5 and achieving load balancing.
Regards |
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| nelson |
| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Partisan
Joined: 02 Oct 2012
Posts: 313
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| rsk33 wrote: |
hi mqjeff..
Thanks for the response..
additional mq layer i mean creating gateway queue manager after f5 and before two mq servers and set up the mq cluster.
F5 will communicate with the gateway....
regards |
Why not -for MQ communications- simply drop the F5 and use instead a MQ acting as a gateway?  it's clear that your new point of failure will be this MQ Gateway.. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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Ok. An MQ cluster doesn't mean that if a message is delivered to qmgr A that it will also be available on qmgr B.
The only way that happens is if the sender delivers the message twice, or if pub/sub is used with two subscriptions.
If the concern is that qmgr A might be unavailable, then Qmgr A should be highly available.
But you should really be spending your time talking to the people making this request of you, trying to understand what they really want, and making sure they know what MQ can and can't do. |
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| rsk33 |
| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 141
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Gateway QM can be configured with high availability or instance. so the configuration can be if not dropping F5.
F5 - Gateway QM ( virtual ip and real ips) - MQ Servers. |
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:48 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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The word 'cluster' means a million different things.
An application cannot connect to an MQ Cluster. Period.
You cannot put an F5 between an application and an MQ Cluster. Period.
You can have an MQ Client application connect to a VIP hosted by an F5 Load Balancer, so that the application's MQ Connection call gets routed by the F5 Load Balancer to an available Queue Manager. That Queue Manager may or may not be a member of an MQ Cluster, but its totally irrelevant.
Putting an F5 between an MQ Client and one or more queue managers is feasible. There are other ways to accomplish the same thing, each with their pros and cons.
Putting an F5 between Queue Manager to Queue Manager connections is inadvisable, whether those queue managers are in an MQ Cluster or not.
_________________
Peter Potkay
Keep Calm and MQ On |
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| rsk33 |
| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:53 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Posts: 141
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hi mqjeff,
we need to reconfigure the mq objects as the reply queue is created in gateway and whichever mq server process, the reply will be sent to gateway by reading from MQMD. |
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