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| PeterPotkay |
 Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:19 pm Post subject: Applets and MQ Client jar files |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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If an applet is going to make MQ API calls to a QM, what is the best way to get that MQ API client functionality into the applet that will be downloaded to the browser of each user using that applet.
Installing and maintaing the full MQ Client on 1000s of desktops is not happening.
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Peter Potkay
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| hughson |
| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:24 am Post subject: |
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Padawan
Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 1959
Location: Bay of Plenty, New Zealand
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HTTP REST interface in the applet and the HTTP bridge at the server side?
See WebSphere MQ bridge for HTTP
| Quote: |
| With WebSphere® MQ bridge for HTTP, client applications can exchange messages with WebSphere MQ without the need to install a WebSphere MQ MQI client. You can call WebSphere MQ from any platform or language with HTTP capabilities. |
It is not as full function as a full MQI Client would be, but may well be enough for your purposes.
Cheers
Morag
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Morag Hughson @MoragHughson
IBM MQ Technical Education Specialist
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:31 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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We are dealing with a legacy app, being looked at from all angles to get it current. Its been a while as you'll soon see. They are currently using MQ APi calls in the applet, based off of MQ jar files that get downloaded to the user's browser when the applet loads. These are the MA88 Support pack jar files, so this was originally built the correct way and the only way.
Soooooo, how do you upgrade the MQ Client jar files in this design without doing a major rewrite of the app or installing MQ Client 7.5.0.2 on thousands of desktops?
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Peter Potkay
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:07 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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Do a major rewrite of the app.
Yes, I know. But still, do a major rewrite of the app.
The same mechanism that currently supplies the MA88 jar files to the user should be able to supply the more current MQ client jar files.
But again, do a major rewrite of the app. Replace MQ with MQTT if possible. No jar files needed, zero install client. |
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:13 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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| mqjeff wrote: |
The same mechanism that currently supplies the MA88 jar files to the user should be able to supply the more current MQ client jar files.
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But that means copying the MQ jars from a MQ 7.5.0.2 install and bundling them with the applet, which nowadays is technically not the right way to do it?
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Peter Potkay
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
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| PeterPotkay wrote: |
| mqjeff wrote: |
The same mechanism that currently supplies the MA88 jar files to the user should be able to supply the more current MQ client jar files.
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But that means copying the MQ jars from a MQ 7.5.0.2 install and bundling them with the applet, which nowadays is technically not the right way to do it? |
It's less worse than continuing to use MA88.
It's more worse than not rewriting the app.
Rewrite the app. |
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| RogerLacroix |
| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 3264
Location: London, ON Canada
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Hi Peter,
I'm confused. You want to change the MQ JAR files but not change the application. Why? What benefit could be gained from changing the MQ JAR files?
Regards,
Roger Lacroix
Capitalware Inc.
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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| RogerLacroix wrote: |
Hi Peter,
I'm confused. You want to change the MQ JAR files but not change the application. Why? What benefit could be gained from changing the MQ JAR files? |
The MQ version in those MQ jar files is from the days of MA88 - i.e. MQ 5.2. We want them using MQ 7.5 jars.
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Peter Potkay
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| RogerLacroix |
| Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 15 May 2001
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| PeterPotkay wrote: |
| The MQ version in those MQ jar files is from the days of MA88 - i.e. MQ 5.2. We want them using MQ 7.5 jars. |
"Just because" is not a valid reason. If the application is working then why fix something that is not broken.
My 2003 Chevy Avalanche's engine runs just fine but by your logic, I should replace it with a shiny new engine because it is old (probably the same age as MA88). Now if you were to say, the engine job includes new suspension lifters, bigger rims, neon under lights and a paint job by Count's Kustoms then maybe I might agree to the engine job. 
Regards,
Roger Lacroix
Capitalware Inc.
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:19 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
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I don't follow, Roger. Perhaps I'm missing intended sarcasm lost in non verbal communication. It seems your advocating NOT upgrading something long out of support since its working as is?
The fact that there isn't a proper official way of doing this without completely tearing apart the app and redesigning it so it doesn't rely on copies of MQ jars does add a twist to the conversation though.
I've said it many times over the past few years....IBM, bring back MA88. Its the Java thing to do.
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Peter Potkay
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| hughson |
| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:31 am Post subject: |
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Padawan
Joined: 09 May 2013
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Location: Bay of Plenty, New Zealand
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| PeterPotkay wrote: |
| I've said it many times over the past few years....IBM, bring back MA88. Its the Java thing to do. |
I've missed the previous discussions on this. Can you expand on this for me? I'm not a Java expert but I thought MA88 was rolled into the product. Was there some facility you had with MA88 that you lost when it was incorporated?
Cheers
Morag
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:43 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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| hughson wrote: |
| PeterPotkay wrote: |
| I've said it many times over the past few years....IBM, bring back MA88. Its the Java thing to do. |
I've missed the previous discussions on this. Can you expand on this for me? I'm not a Java expert but I thought MA88 was rolled into the product. Was there some facility you had with MA88 that you lost when it was incorporated?
Cheers
Morag |
Morag, without MA88 I have to tell people "Yes, I know it works when it you just copy a couple of those jar files to wherever your app will execute......Yes, a few years ago that was the only way to do it (MA88), but not anymore....Even though you only need a couple of jar files, you must install this full MQ Client on every server or desktop your app will run on."
Telling them the client install is free and easy to install doesn't change the discussion. Its not easier than including the jars in their ear or war files and not dealing with an install and the footprint that full install requires.
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Peter Potkay
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
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The problem with "it's not broken, don't fix it" when applied to software is that software is developed based on a set of requirements (or should be!).
Those requirements absolutely positively change over time. So just because it worked successfully at go live, and has continued to work since then, that doesn't mean it's not now actually broken.
If the requirements changed, and the program hasn't, then the program no longer meets the requirements, and so it's BROKEN.
Presumably one of the non-functional requirements that is involved is "stay in a configuration supportable by IBM". And using MA88 doesn't do that. |
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| hughson |
| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:58 am Post subject: |
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Padawan
Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 1959
Location: Bay of Plenty, New Zealand
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| PeterPotkay wrote: |
| "Yes, I know it works when it you just copy a couple of those jar files to wherever your app will execute......Yes, a few years ago that was the only way to do it (MA88), but not anymore....Even though you only need a couple of jar files, you must install this full MQ Client on every server or desktop your app will run on." |
So you want IBM to support the redistribution of jar files from the MQ installation. Suggest you vote on RFE 31241. It's request for, among other things:-
- The lightweight client must consist of one or more files that can be packaged with an application.
sounds right up your street.
Cheers
Morag
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| RogerLacroix |
| Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 3264
Location: London, ON Canada
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| PeterPotkay wrote: |
| I don't follow, Roger. Perhaps I'm missing intended sarcasm lost in non verbal communication. It seems your advocating NOT upgrading something long out of support since its working as is? |
True unless you are having issues with the application. If you want to use the latest MQ JAR that definitely means a rewrite of the application because the Java MQ API calls in the MQ JAR files have changed.
The sarcasm was about my truck running fine and would still run fine with a bunch of cool upgrades.
| mqjeff wrote: |
The problem with "it's not broken, don't fix it" when applied to software is that software is developed based on a set of requirements (or should be!).
Those requirements absolutely positively change over time. |
Peter has not said anything about a change in the requirements only that he wants to use supported MQ JAR files.
| mqjeff wrote: |
| Presumably one of the non-functional requirements that is involved is "stay in a configuration supportable by IBM". And using MA88 doesn't do that. |
That is the only requirement listed by Peter. Since this is a really old application and apparently has not been updated in a long while, to use the latest MQ JAR files, requires a major rewrite of the application.
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Outside of ETC and exits, I've never had an issue with the standard Java MQ API calls. If you are not using either (ETC or exits) with the application then my opinion is to leave it alone.
If you really, really want to use the latest MQ JAR files, here's what I would do (if forced into it - kicking & screaming):
- Do NOT modify the application
- Continue to use MA88 JAR files with the Java compiler to build the application *** this is REALLY important ****
- Copy the following MQ JAR files to the web server's JNLP directory for the application:
com.ibm.mq.jar
connector.jar
com.ibm.mq.commonservices.jar
com.ibm.mq.headers.jar
com.ibm.mq.jmqi.jar
- Update the JNLP file to include the above 5 files
- Run/deploy the application
I'm 99.9% sure you will end with what you want.
Regards,
Roger Lacroix
Capitalware Inc.
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