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| MQ PDF Documentation |
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| crossland |
 Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:21 am Post subject: MQ PDF Documentation |
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Joined: 26 Jun 2001
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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See Peter Potkay's other post on this topic.
And, again, good luck with this, but I don't support it. Not that my opinion matters for anything.
But to clarify a bit... I absolutely support the notion of having the documentation in a movable, installable format. Just not in something that is built around the notion of pages and designed to be printed out and unable to update individual sections without having to redownload the whole thing.
So, for example, a version of the InfoCenter in plain HTTP that was shareable and packagble would be fine by me. PDF? not so much. |
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| crossland |
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 26 Jun 2001
Posts: 248
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| mqjeff wrote: |
| a version of the InfoCenter in plain HTTP that was shareable and packagble would be fine by me. |
Do you mean HTML because if so, that is an interesting idea?
Having learnt about MQ on version 1 manuals, I can't help but feel that these manuals were a lot more useful to learn from than the Info Centre is. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:49 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
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| crossland wrote: |
| mqjeff wrote: |
| a version of the InfoCenter in plain HTTP that was shareable and packagble would be fine by me. |
Do you mean HTML because if so, that is an interesting idea? |
Yes, I meant HTML. My brain said HTML and my fingers typed HTTP.
In theory, the Documentation now comes this way, in that you can download and install the Info Center locally. But what you have to install is a fully copy of the Eclipse Help System, which is not so much 'shareable and packable'.
The big problem I have with the pdf version of the documentation, aside from the fact that it's page-oriented, is that I end up needing to learn things that run as a big long thread through several major sections.
Just assume for a minute that I want to learn how to write a real MQGet call in the C Language. I need to read a section of the Application Programming Guide, a section of the Application Programming reference, possible a bit of the Quick Beginnings Guide for Windows, possibly a bit of the Constants Manual, possibly a bit of the Intercommunications manual....
If these are PDFS, in separate files on my local harddrive or even worse on my iPad, then I have to do a lot of swapping back and forth between files. And if it's in a paged-form, I have to do a lot more flipping pages to find the relevant content.
The info Center is *much* better at this kind of threaded, topic-based learning. |
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:56 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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I don't think people really care if its PDF, HTML, ABC or XYZ. I'm guessing a lot of people, like me, like the ability to print the whole manual out, stick it in a 3 ring binder, hold it, and read page by page, favorite color highlighter in hand. Scribbling notes in the columns, adding sticky notes as bookmarks.
If the vendor updates the doc, then provide us with the changes in a change log so we can print out just the page(s) that get updated.
Most people wouldn't print out every manual*, just the ones they most need to be in all the time, like the System Admin Guide.
* At MQ 5.3, when I was just learning how to spell MQ, yes, I had every manual printed out and on a bookshelf above my monitor. I reprinted most of them when MQ 6.0 came out. When MQ 7.0 came out..... 
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Peter Potkay
Keep Calm and MQ On |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:54 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| mqjeff wrote: |
The big problem I have with the pdf version of the documentation, aside from the fact that it's page-oriented, is that I end up needing to learn things that run as a big long thread through several major sections.
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This is precisely why I prefer pdf versions of books and manuals. When I began my study of MQ (before there was a W), I wanted to get the big picture.
Today, when I want to find the syntax of a command, the InfoCenter seems to provide the snippet I need.
I wouldn't want to read a "War and Peace" in InfoCenter format - a page here a page there, no linearity. I wouldn't want to read "The old man and the sea" in InfoCenter format - 100 words on a page on the fish, another page on Santiago.
Most of us have spent a lifetime reading in book format - pdf format. InfoCenter is dictionary format.
Those manual page updates of years gone by? TNLs - Technical News Letters.
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Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| bruce2359 wrote: |
| mqjeff wrote: |
The big problem I have with the pdf version of the documentation, aside from the fact that it's page-oriented, is that I end up needing to learn things that run as a big long thread through several major sections.
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This is precisely why I prefer pdf versions of books and manuals. When I began my study of MQ (before there was a W), I wanted to get the big picture. |
Yeah, and doing that requires having five or six printed manuals open to five or 8 pages, all spread out over one desk and covering everything, and then you're having to keep the other manuals lying around just in case, all in their own separate 3-ring binder.
It's *terrible*.
| bruce2359 wrote: |
| Most of us have spent a lifetime reading in book format - pdf format. InfoCenter is dictionary format. |
Guess what?
Most of us are in the business of supporting *technology*.
That means *adapting to change*.
You wouldn't tell a customer to use a card-reader, because it lets you see the whole of the program in a nice neat deck, would you? |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| mqjeff wrote: |
It's *terrible*. ...
You wouldn't tell a customer to use a card-reader, because it lets you see the whole of the program in a nice neat deck, would you? |
We differ in opinion. Manuals aren't terrible; neither is the InfoCenter. Each serves a customer base. But each offers something different. pdf manuals are not exactly equal to InfoCenter renderings, would you agree?
IBM may be leading the inevitable march to no-more-books, but I'm doubtful that we are on this march. IBM's decision (as best I understand it) had more to do with its inability to buy Adobe, or come to license agreement with Adobe. All this combined with IBMs downsizing its author base.
The battle here isn't necessarily between pdf and InfoCenter. I'd be more satisfied with Book Manager type manuals. At least these are renderings of traditional books.
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| rcp_mq |
| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Posts: 133
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| I'm in favor of a pdf manual. Total relent here. I have/taken pdf prints of needed pages from the infocenter on a PC. I'd love to put a whole manual on my ebook reader and put aside my laptop...(not that i use my laptop exclusively to look at the manual) |
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| crossland |
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 26 Jun 2001
Posts: 248
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| bruce2359 wrote: |
Most of us have spent a lifetime reading in book format - pdf format. InfoCenter is dictionary format.
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That is a great way of putting it - the PDF format manuals were equivalent to reading a book, whilst the InfoCentre is equivalent to looking something up in a dictionary; I know which I'd prefer to learn from. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:39 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| crossland wrote: |
| bruce2359 wrote: |
Most of us have spent a lifetime reading in book format - pdf format. InfoCenter is dictionary format.
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That is a great way of putting it - the PDF format manuals were equivalent to reading a book, whilst the InfoCentre is equivalent to looking something up in a dictionary; I know which I'd prefer to learn from. |
It's also not true.
The info center contains all of the same information - and in fact, newer versions of the info center contains a LOT MORE information as the PDF manuals.
The significant difference is where the information is broken.
PDF manuals break the information in MANY MORE places than the InfoCenter.
PDF is forced to break information at every PAGE, which consists of a US LTR or A4 sized chunk of real estate. The Info Center doesn't break information in the middle of a subject. PDF manuals also break information at various random topic boundaries, that happen to be called 'books'.
So if I need to be looking at a full set of information on some particular subject I may need to assemble MANY books in order to have all of the same pieces. And I may need to be looking at several different pages within each book, which requires a lot more flipping of pages.
Again, PDF doesn't bring anything useful to the table at all, other than nostalgia. And nostalgia is not a good reason to make a decision on a technical subject. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:13 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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Real estate and Newer technology are poor arguments for leaving book style.
Pagination is seldom an issue for authors; rather, it is automated - Word and Adobe do this task.
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live.
Last edited by bruce2359 on Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:20 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| bruce2359 wrote: |
| Real estate and Newer technology are poor arguments for leaving book style. |
You have yet to demonstrate what the difference between 'book style' and 'dictionary style' is, when as I have asserted, both formats hold the same information.
You're either making an argument on real estate or you're making an argument on content, and the argument on content is provably false. |
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| zpat |
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
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| How many of us would want to change our QWERTY keyboards for a more modern, but totally different design? |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:33 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| zpat wrote: |
| How many of us would want to change our QWERTY keyboards for a more modern, but totally different design? |
So we should stick with an obsolete design for keyboards that was intentionally built to slow things down because we are 'used to it'?
Again, that's the 80 column cards argument. |
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