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| exerk |
 Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:39 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| mqjeff wrote: |
It was the worst insult they could think of.
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I shall now don my Tarleton and administer a good kicking to the nearest damned ex-colonial I can find 
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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| exerk wrote: |
| mqjeff wrote: |
| Yes, except for that bit where before hand one side said "We're not English any more"... |
So why do the Amish refer to anyone non-Amish as "The English"?  |
Maybe because "The English" don't speak Dutch or German and it was a global adequate way of describing a stranger by his language? 
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MQ & Broker admin |
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| rekarm01 |
| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 1415
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| YAHOO_PETE |
| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:47 pm Post subject: assuming ? |
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Newbie
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 2
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butcher and exerk, you are assuming anyone said to fish instead of teach how to fish. there are ways to go about teaching someone how to fish. Usually it's not, "there's the lake ... figure the rest out!"
You say "lighten up", which is hillarious to me since my comment was to someone who never seems to lighten up. This is a forum, NO? So if people want to respond, they can. If they don't, they don't. The person posting will understand whey they do not get a response.
However, there is no reason to consistently bust people's chops when they ask a question. If you don't like it, don't respond! There are many newbies in the enterprise messaging world. Perhaps we should encourage them ... or are you afraid they will take your job someday?
The older I grow the more I distrust the familiar doctrine that age brings wisdom  |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:06 am Post subject: Re: assuming ? |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| ...there are ways to go about teaching someone how to fish. Usually it's not, "there's the lake ... figure the rest out!..." |
Correct, which is why usually the first response is to point people in the direction of the "Read First" forum and/or the Info Centre and return with a question if there is clarification required, or (more usually) the manual is ambiguous. Or, questions are asked about what research has already been done etc.
| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| ...You say "lighten up", which is hillarious to me since my comment was to someone who never seems to lighten up... |
I tend to get a bit irritated when looking at/responding to the umpteenth "I need to solve this problem yesterday but have done no fault diagnosis and have no idea of what I'm doing (depressingly often and just as often not the fault of the individual whom has been given no education/training, in which case they do get tea-and-sympathy type responses) - tell me!" type of post. I think if you did some statistical analysis of posts by those whom you feel need to lighten up you will find they make up a very small percentage of their total posts.
| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| ...This is a forum, NO? So if people want to respond, they can. If they don't, they don't. The person posting will understand whey they do not get a response... |
Yes, and no. Often what happens when someone gets no response, perhaps because those like me that need to lighten up decide that no response is better than an acid one, is that the poster then double-posts, or worse, triple posts, and clearing up such as that can be very irritating too.
| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| ...However, there is no reason to consistently bust people's chops when they ask a question... |
I'm not consistent - except with serial offenders!
| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| ...If you don't like it, don't respond! |
See my previous comment...
| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| ...There are many newbies in the enterprise messaging world... |
There are indeed, and I was one once.
| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| ...Perhaps we should encourage them... |
I do, as much as possible, but I stop short of doing their job for them. Maybe it's a problem with education systems, but I was taught to quest rather than to just ask for answers.
| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| ...or are you afraid they will take your job someday?... |
No, because if they do it means that if I have helped in any way to train/educate them then I have done my job properly - and it would mean I have got lazy. I am NOT a believer in knowledge-is-power because I don't want to be the one called out at stupid o'clock in the morning every time something goes wrong.
| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| ...The older I grow the more I distrust the familiar doctrine that age brings wisdom |
Agreed, but also people often confuse painfully won experience with cycnicism.
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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@yahoo_pete
You have some good points, people should be more kind. Part of the problem is, the people come and post on the forum questions that would be answered by
http://www-304.ibm.com/jct03001c/services/learning/ites.wss/au/en?pageType=course_description&includeNotScheduled=y&courseCode=VM663AU
and other publicly available information. Yet, they seem to think that they can learn a product like WMB over the weekend using cheat-sheets and study guides.
Unfortunately, there is alot of novice people coming into the middleware specialty that need to be weeded out. We can weed them out in the forum which may save them some embarassment from being weeded out in the job.
Before posting questions in a public forum, it would be nice if the poster actually went to the training, then googled for an answer, then tried a few things on his own, then post.
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Save $20: Coupon Code: MQSERIES_READER |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:55 am Post subject: Re: assuming ? |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| butcher and exerk, you are assuming anyone said to fish instead of teach how to fish. there are ways to go about teaching someone how to fish. Usually it's not, "there's the lake ... figure the rest out!" |
There are links to all the fishing rods & nets you need at the top of this page.
| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| This is a forum, NO? |
This is a forum, yes. It's not a shortcut to reading the documentation or learning the product. Despite many managers believing it is and throwing newbies at the software with nothing but a link here & short deadlines.
| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| The person posting will understand whey they do not get a response. |
I respectfully disagree based on the number of "please help me" follow up posts we used to get.
| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| However, there is no reason to consistently bust people's chops when they ask a question. If you don't like it, don't respond! |
We only bust the same people's chops if they keep asking dumb questions.
I'd also ask if you're prepared to take up the slack if the usual suspects stop responding.
| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| There are many newbies in the enterprise messaging world. Perhaps we should encourage them ... or are you afraid they will take your job someday? |
Any person that wants it can have my job. Typically someone else has always got my job once my contract ended.
| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| The older I grow the more I distrust the familiar doctrine that age brings wisdom |
Propaganda by old people. I've never claimed wisdom, just 20 years of using this software and a photographic memory for text.
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:58 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| Yet, they seem to think that they can learn a product like WMB over the weekend using cheat-sheets and study guides. |
 (and what are the odds of that????  )
There are also a number of managers who think they can save money in their training budget by throwing people into the deep end with a cheat sheet & accepting that those who drown are natural wastage.
| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| We can weed them out in the forum which may save them some embarassment from being weeded out in the job. |
Not exactly how I'd have phrased it perhaps..... 
| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| Before posting questions in a public forum, it would be nice if the poster actually went to the training, then googled for an answer, then tried a few things on his own, then post. |
Or at least read the "Read First" section in this forum! 
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:07 am Post subject: Re: assuming ? |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| YAHOO_PETE wrote: |
| Perhaps we should encourage them ... or are you afraid they will take your job someday? |
I do feel this guy is not a threat. He's posting here asking how to work his C compiler.
His previous questions were how to add numbers togther in C and how to view a text file.
I busted his chops and don't feel bad about it.
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| Bnikpour |
| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 20
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Hell of a second post lol
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| Bnikpour wrote: |
Hell of a second post lol
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I think it's our first troll. 
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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