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| Publish Subscribe with MB6.1 and MQ7 |
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| fjb_saper |
 Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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Why create an alias topic? In the "old" pub/sub style you created the RFH2 anyways. So why not just send the message to the relevant stream queue for publishing? Agreed with the administrative subscriptions. However I thought that part of the pub/sub migration in the broker was to move the subscriptions from the broker to the qmgr?...
Anyways we do the pub/sub at V6.0 level on the broker. The only thing that changed is that now the qmgr is at 7.0.1.4... running in psmode=compat.
P.S. Update on my earlier post... WMB7 does not allow you to share a qmgr with WMB6 even if the WMB6 broker is not running. Had to define an additional qmgr... As we are in a cluster it is easy to suspend the one or the other... 
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| Mirage |
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Apprentice
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 44
Location: IL
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| PeterPotkay wrote: |
The WMB 6.1 Broker just does not have any code in it that is aware of the MQ 7 Pub Sub features. Even though the MQ version for the broker may be MQ 7, the WMB 6.1 Broker does not have any capability to open a topic object and to then put directly to a topic, and it does not know anything about the MQSUB verb.
This does not mean that WMB 6.1 flows can't play with an MQ 7 style Pub Sub infrastructure. The MQ Admin can create an Alias Queue that resolves to a pre defined Topic object. Then the WMB 6.1 Message Flow simply hooks up an MQOutput Node to that Alias queue and like magic it's now an MQ 7 publisher, by simply pushing plain messages to a plain MQ Output node. On the subscription side, the subscriptions can be created administratively ahead of time, sending the messages to a predefined queue. The WMB 6.1 flow then just hooks up a MQInput node to that queue and like magic its now a subscriber in MQ 7, picking up any messages that land on that queue. While this is a way to make WMB 6.1 play with MQ 7 Pub Sub, it does not scale well if you expect to have lots and lots of publishers and subscribers and topics.
In WMB 7 this all changes and WMB 7 is aware of the WMQ 7 way of doing Pub Sub. |
Peter,
Thanks for the quick response. I understand the work around you have posted with queue alias pointing to a Topic. But, since both products are owned by IBM, I didn't believe initially that V 6.1 Broker would not work directly with MQ V7 pub/sub. With this work wround basically we are just making the MB code act like it doesn't anything about Pub/Sub and just do regular queue put/get's. I wonder why all that intelligence it already has about Pub/Sub is not updated work with MQ V7.
I had hard time finding this documented in Info Center..this is the close I could find. This Link says you have to use the in-built pub/sub engine of Broker V6 for queued pub/sub [The RFH2 headers pub/sub that FJB _Saper noted in his posts falls under this right?.]
http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/wmqv7/v7r0/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.mq.amqnar.doc/ps29010_.htm
| Quote: |
Note: If the queue manager is providing enterprise messaging support for WebSphere Message Broker V6 or WebSphere Event Broker V6, then queued publish/subscribe programs must use the publish/subscribe broker provided by those products. New publish/subscribe programs can use version 7 integrated publish/subscribe on the same queue manager. This has implications for interoperability between a version 6 and version 7 publish/subscribe program running on the same queue manager as a message broker. See Interoperation with queued publish/subscribe, for more details.
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Am I reading it right? Please clarify.
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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| Mirage wrote: |
| PeterPotkay wrote: |
The WMB 6.1 Broker just does not have any code in it that is aware of the MQ 7 Pub Sub features. Even though the MQ version for the broker may be MQ 7, the WMB 6.1 Broker does not have any capability to open a topic object and to then put directly to a topic, and it does not know anything about the MQSUB verb.
This does not mean that WMB 6.1 flows can't play with an MQ 7 style Pub Sub infrastructure. The MQ Admin can create an Alias Queue that resolves to a pre defined Topic object. Then the WMB 6.1 Message Flow simply hooks up an MQOutput Node to that Alias queue and like magic it's now an MQ 7 publisher, by simply pushing plain messages to a plain MQ Output node. On the subscription side, the subscriptions can be created administratively ahead of time, sending the messages to a predefined queue. The WMB 6.1 flow then just hooks up a MQInput node to that queue and like magic its now a subscriber in MQ 7, picking up any messages that land on that queue. While this is a way to make WMB 6.1 play with MQ 7 Pub Sub, it does not scale well if you expect to have lots and lots of publishers and subscribers and topics.
In WMB 7 this all changes and WMB 7 is aware of the WMQ 7 way of doing Pub Sub. |
Peter,
Thanks for the quick response. I understand the work around you have posted with queue alias pointing to a Topic. But, since both products are owned by IBM, I didn't believe initially that V 6.1 Broker would not work directly with MQ V7 pub/sub. With this work wround basically we are just making the MB code act like it doesn't anything about Pub/Sub and just do regular queue put/get's. I wonder why all that intelligence it already has about Pub/Sub is not updated work with MQ V7.
I had hard time finding this documented in Info Center..this is the close I could find. This Link says you have to use the in-built pub/sub engine of Broker V6 for queued pub/sub [The RFH2 headers pub/sub that FJB _Saper noted in his posts falls under this right?.]
http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/wmqv7/v7r0/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.mq.amqnar.doc/ps29010_.htm
| Quote: |
Note: If the queue manager is providing enterprise messaging support for WebSphere Message Broker V6 or WebSphere Event Broker V6, then queued publish/subscribe programs must use the publish/subscribe broker provided by those products. New publish/subscribe programs can use version 7 integrated publish/subscribe on the same queue manager. This has implications for interoperability between a version 6 and version 7 publish/subscribe program running on the same queue manager as a message broker. See Interoperation with queued publish/subscribe, for more details.
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Am I reading it right? Please clarify.
Thanks |
WMB v7 requires WMQ v7. (InfoCenter says so.)
WMB v7 on WMQ v6.x is a possible but unsupported configuration.
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| Mirage |
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Apprentice
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 44
Location: IL
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I'm talking about WMB V6.1 with WMQ V 7.0.1
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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| Mirage wrote: |
I'm talking about WMB V6.1 with WMQ V 7.0.1
Thanks |
Same deal applies. Pub/sub on WMB v6.x works differently than v7. Instead of paying all this pain, why not get it right the first time and put both products on v7.
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg27010522
Did you apply the APAR? IC57915 ?
| Quote: |
WebSphere MQ IBM WebSphere MQ for Windows, V6.0 [see section note 1] IBM WebSphere MQ for Windows, V7.0 [see section notes 2 and 3] IBM WebSphere MQ for Windows, V7.0.1 [see section note 4]
Notes:
1. WebSphere MQ V6.0.1.0 or later is required for globally coordinated transaction support (‘XA’).
2. APAR IC57915 must be applied.
3. WebSphere Message Broker V6.1.0.3 or later is required.
4. WebSphere Message Broker V6.1.0.5 or later is required.
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| Mirage |
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Apprentice
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 44
Location: IL
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We are at MB V 6.1.0.7 and MQ V 7.0.1.4, so I think we are good with the APAR.
I just wanted to see if IBM officically said anywhere in the docs that MQ's V 7 Pub/Sub engine is not supported for MB V 6.1. That link in my previous post is the only thing I could find and wanted confirmation from the experts in here.
Upgrading to MB V7 is not an option right now for us and thats why I'm trying to find the options out there (other than upgrading  to MB V 7 )
I hope 'dilse' got some response from the IBM PMR and will post it here for all of us.
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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dilse and I work on the same account. A PMR was opened. We specifically asked - Does the WMB 6.1 Broker understand MQ 7 Pub Sub things like the MQSUB verb and the ability to open a topic object directly and put to it? The answer is No.
I'm just some stranger on the internet. You should open your own PMR and get your official confirmation if you are making business decisions based on this info.
Pure speculation here, but I guess when the WMB 6.1.0.0 code was written, MQ 7 style pub sub was barely a twinkle in Hursley's eye, so no allowances were made for it. Shame that a future Fix Pack for WMB 6.1 wouldn't introduce the option to play with MQ 7 Pub Sub. An MQSUB node? A PutToTopic node? I'm sure things are much more complicated than that behind the scenes and its not as trivial as that to make it work, what do I know....
Its just one of the many features that are available in WMB 7 that are not in WMB 6.1.If you want it bad enough, I guess you gotta take the risk and effort to upgrade to WMB 7.0.0.2.
Otherwise, you upgrade the QM to MQ 7 and let WMB 6.1 continue to Pub Sub the way it did when the QM was at MQ 6. FJ mentioned a few posts back that they are doing this.
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Peter Potkay
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| Mirage |
| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Apprentice
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 44
Location: IL
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Thanks again Peter. This is what I was looking for.
We'll proably open a PMR as well....just to keep our managers happy and show it officially from IBM.
Thanks. |
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