| Do developers have WMQ admin privileges at your shop? |
| No! |
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58% |
[ 10 ] |
| Yes, in test, qa and prod - everywhere |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
| Yes, in test and qa; but NOT prod |
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11% |
[ 2 ] |
| Yes, in test only |
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17% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 17 |
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| Author |
Message
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| bruce2359 |
 Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9475
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| Quote: |
I see now why mainframe developers are not understanding the benefit of Sandbox and why its such a big deal for them to get approval for expenditures. Its just too costly for the mainframe platform.
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This is not a mainframe vs. midrange issue. The argument mainframes cost more than midrange has long been proven to be a fantasy.
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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| fatherjack wrote: |
| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| The ROI on cloud infrastructure is astronomical. Most banker types realize this. You may know some, but I have yet to run into any that would not support a good business case. Live like you dream. If we fail to dream, we only defeat ourselves. |
If only! In the recent past i've worked at 3 major financial services institutions in the UK and this doesn't apply to any of them. |
Maybe they have not seen a good business case?
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Last edited by lancelotlinc on Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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| bruce2359 wrote: |
| Quote: |
I see now why mainframe developers are not understanding the benefit of Sandbox and why its such a big deal for them to get approval for expenditures. Its just too costly for the mainframe platform.
|
This is not a mainframe vs. midrange issue. The argument mainframes cost more than midrange has long been proven to be a fantasy. |
I've not said anything about midrange. And last I knew, it costs more than ten cents per hour to run a mainframe. I specifically said "distributed systems" and the ten cents per hour quote is for a RHEL 5.5 64-bit vCPU instance. "PC Server".
I love 1960s automobiles, especially the old Volkswagen bugs and the M-G midgets. My 1994 Honda CRX got 47 miles to the gallon before I sold it. I long for the old Honda delSols. Unfortunately, they are not PC anymore.
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| fatherjack wrote: |
| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| The ROI on cloud infrastructure is astronomical. Most banker types realize this. You may know some, but I have yet to run into any that would not support a good business case. Live like you dream. If we fail to dream, we only defeat ourselves. |
If only! In the recent past i've worked at 3 major financial services institutions in the UK and this doesn't apply to any of them. |
Maybe they have not seen a good business case? |
Again with the ouch. The fact that you have high levels of access to a management layer that's receptive to such things, and a highly developed ability to sell this does not alter the fact that a lot of us on a lot of sites have been told repeated that "we can't change that", or "it's outsourced and not our problem", or "this would interfer with the developement timetable".
It doesn't mean we can't put together a good business case or present it effectively! It does mean that no-one listens because they have other priorities or don't wish to challenge the corporate culture.
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| fatherjack |
| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Knight
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 522
Location: Craggy Island
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We're kinda going off the point of the original post here but....
| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| Maybe they have not seen a good business case? |
They probably haven't.
| Vitor wrote: |
| It doesn't mean we can't put together a good business case or present it effectively! |
Hmmmm. Not even sure we can.
It's much harder to put a business case to a bunch of bankers to change your development methodology, tools and environments than it is to introduce a new product or build a new system to help sell more existing products faster.
| Vitor wrote: |
| It does mean that no-one listens because they have other priorities or don't wish to challenge the corporate culture. |
Often they don't listen. And even if they do they don't understand.
And one of thie biggest problems with a business case is that in this day and age ROI has to be immediate. Investing for the long term is a much harder sell. So initiatives like changing your development methodology and tools or introducing an enterpirise architecture for example rarely get off the ground.
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Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory. |
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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Vitor and Jack have great insight. I agree with your sentiment. We can hope that one day things will improve.
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| fatherjack wrote: |
| We're kinda going off the point of the original post here but.... |
| fatherjack wrote: |
| It's much harder to put a business case to a bunch of bankers to change your development methodology, tools and environments than it is to introduce a new product or build a new system to help sell more existing products faster. |
| fatherjack wrote: |
| Vitor wrote: |
| It does mean that no-one listens because they have other priorities or don't wish to challenge the corporate culture. |
Often they don't listen. And even if they do they don't understand. |
| fatherjack wrote: |
| And one of thie biggest problems with a business case is that in this day and age ROI has to be immediate. Investing for the long term is a much harder sell. So initiatives like changing your development methodology and tools or introducing an enterpirise architecture for example rarely get off the ground. |
And wish I'd been able to put it so eloquently.
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| fatherjack |
| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Knight
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 522
Location: Craggy Island
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| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| Vitor and Jack have great insight. I agree with your sentiment. We can hope that one day things will improve. |
Or maybe we've just worked at the same places  )
_________________
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| fatherjack wrote: |
| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| Vitor and Jack have great insight. I agree with your sentiment. We can hope that one day things will improve. |
Or maybe we've just worked at the same places ) |
I do get around...
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| fatherjack |
| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Knight
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 522
Location: Craggy Island
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| Vitor wrote: |
| I do get around... |
Me too. But unfortunately neither of us has found the nirvana which is lancelotlinc's world.
I can guess what you've done to deserve that, but me ?
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Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9475
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| Quote: |
| And last I knew, it costs more than ten cents per hour to run a mainframe. |
Cost per hour is perhaps the very last metric I'd offer to management.
Cost per transaction, or cost per million transactions, would be a more meaningful metric
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| Vitor wrote: |
| I do get around... |
It has been said... 
_________________
It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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| bruce2359 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| And last I knew, it costs more than ten cents per hour to run a mainframe. |
Cost per hour is perhaps the very last metric I'd offer to management.
Cost per transaction, or cost per million transactions, would be a more meaningful metric |
Given the fact that the context of our discussion is a Sandbox environment which processes zero production transactions, how does this relate to our discussion?
20th Century developers are not used to the spread of environments that 21st Century developers have come to know. There is nothing wrong with that. It is understandable why legacy systems are structured the way they are. No heartburn here with that.
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| cicsprog |
| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Partisan
Joined: 27 Jan 2002
Posts: 347
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I allow access to only certain commands ....CLEAR, MOVE, UPDATE. DELETE of message data for their Q's and ablity to look at objects...and only to production support types with my approval from the RACF Admins. I only support z/OS MQ BTW. Their the data owners and it almost always a problem with message data payload that they know more about than I do. With 100 z/OS MQ's its hard to be any too familiar with any one particular application.
Too much of reboot mentality (slash and burn) to resolve issues with developers to allow them any more critical access. |
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