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| pcelari |
 Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:09 am Post subject: WTX replacing Message Broker? |
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Chevalier
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 411
Location: New York
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Hello,
I thought Websphere Transformation Extender is a product that extends WMB's transformation capabilities.
But when I installed the product and read more, it become clear that there's virtually nothing message broker can do WTX can not do better, easier and faster. Or am I wrong on that?
So, is WTX eventually going to replace message broker altogether, and thus put many of us out of the job? 
I'd appreciate any insight and clarification on this.
_________________
pcelari
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- a master of always being a newbie |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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You're wrong on that.
At least, right now, in an entirely unofficial opinion.
Who knows what the future may bring? |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:26 am Post subject: Re: WTX replacing Message Broker? |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| pcelari wrote: |
| But when I installed the product and read more, it become clear that there's virtually nothing message broker can do WTX can not do better, easier and faster. Or am I wrong on that? |
I'd disagree.
| pcelari wrote: |
| So, is WTX eventually going to replace message broker altogether, and thus put many of us out of the job? |
Or someone will invent a new ESB/middleware technology, and thus put many of us out of a job. Times change, technology evolves and jobs disappear.
I mourn the passing of C & COBOL, and the rise of Java. But what can you do?
| pcelari wrote: |
| I'd appreciate any insight and clarification on this. |
I suspect IBM will annouce their future plans more publically than posting here. Obviously we should be first ..... 
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| kimbert |
| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 5542
Location: Southampton
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| Quote: |
| So, is WTX eventually going to replace message broker altogether |
No. The docs are correct. Your speculation is not  |
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| pcelari |
| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Chevalier
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 411
Location: New York
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Poohh, that's good to know.
thanks for the answer from Hursley !
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pcelari
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- a master of always being a newbie |
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| zpat |
| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
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WTX is from the Mercator product that IBM acquired.
I think it will eventually go the way of Neon nodes (that is be supported for some time to allow migration and then dropped).
In a head to head - Mercator was never as good as WMB (in my view). |
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: A little bit of History |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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If you just want to transform a message then WTX can do it faster than Broker as it is using dedicated hardware for the job. As someone has said, there is a possibility that WTX will go the way of Neon.
For those new to broker, MQSI(aka Broker) 1.1 was basically a rebadged NEON.
With MQSI 2.0 IBM introduced many of the core nodes we use today.
With each release (and often a . release and sometimes with fixpacks, mode nodes have been introduced and its functionality extended.
I remember struggling with 2.0.1 & the limits of the amount of data that (could be returned in a Select statement as well as deployments that could take 20minutes per flow on a multi CPU System)
Broker as we know it today is more of a general purpose Transformation & Message Processing environment than the dedicated Transformation Engine of WTX.
There is obviously some overlap in the products just as there is overlap between WAS & Broker.
Even if Broker is more of a general purpose tool than it ever was, there are still some things that it can't do and IMHO shouldn't ever be made to do unless it was ever decided to allow flows for be deployed into WAS. (Fat chance)
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Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions. |
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| shanson |
| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Partisan
Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 344
Location: IBM Hursley
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I'm afraid there is a lot of inaccuracy on this thread.
WTX is an engine that runs user-defined transformations called maps. It does NOT have it's own hardware. It has C and Java APIs that mean you can invoke it from a variety of different places - WAS, CICS, and of course WMB.
WTX maps are similar in concept to WMB's graphical maps. They take data and transform it from one form to another via visual drag and drop programming. But there are several differences, the most important of which are:
a) WTX maps take a bitstream of data and create a bitstream of data. WMB mapper operates on the broker's logical tree. The WTX engine parses the data, maps it, then serializes it in one operation.
b) In fact WTX maps can take multiple input bitstreams and create multiple output bitstreams.
c) WTX has built in adapters for a variety of transports. WMB mapper is used in association with other WMB nodes that provide the transport.
d) The rules language used by WTX pre-dates XPath by many years and looks quite different to the XPath based language used by WMB mapper, although the two languages have much capability in common.
Is WTX replacing WMB? No. That's like saying an apple is replacing an orange. They are not the same beast. WTX is a transformation engine. WMB is an ESB. You can use a transformation engine in an ESB. You can use WTX in WMB, like you can use Java, ESQL, PHP, XSLs and WMB maps.
In WTX for MB 8.2.0.3, WTX maps are more tightly integrated into WMB than before. For example, a Collector node can gather multiple messages into a message collection, and these messages can be delivered to different input cards of a WTX map. This integration will get even tighter over time.
Possible cause of confusion #1: There is an offering of WTX called 'WTX Launcher'. This is a process that allows you to execute chains of WTX maps, called 'systems'. But it is nothing more than that. It is not an ESB. It does not have anywhere near the function that WMB has. In fact, it is only sold to existing WTX Launcher users; the strategic way of executing WTX in a general purpose ESB is to use WMB.
Possible cause of confusion #2: I suspect the point about WTX having its own hardware is because WTX maps can be compiled with a special option to execute on the DataPower XI50 appliance, as an alternative to the native XSLs used by the appliance.
What are the circumatances where it makes sense to use WTX in WMB instead of its native transform capabilities?
i) You have existing WTX skills in your shop
ii) You want to use WTX 'packs' (pre-built models of industry standard messages)
iii) You have a message format that can not be modelled using the broker's message model & MRM parser (the WTX equivalent is called 'type trees' and they are more expressive than WMB's model)
iv) You want to create transformations that can be run in multiple runtime environments
v) You want to be able to develop & test transforms independently from WMB, and XSL is not an option (eg, data is not XML)
Last edited by shanson on Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Esa |
| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Finland
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| I agree. It does not make sense to talk about WTX replacing Message Broker. But it may replace Message Brokers own mapping tool some day. And hopefully will. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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The difficulty with replacing the Broker mapping tool with a WTX mapping engine is that WTX TypeTrees have no separation between logical and physical data representation.
So you can't just instruct a WTX TypeTree that has parsed a COBOL copybook to render itself as XML. You have to map each and every field onto a new set of elements that have XML physical information. |
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| shanson |
| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Partisan
Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 344
Location: IBM Hursley
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And should IBM force XPath savvy users to learn the proprietary, non-standard WTX rules language?
I think there will be a place for WTX and XPath/XQuery based mappers for the forseeable future. |
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| zpat |
| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
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| Don't forget that although WTX ships with WMB - it is not free to use with a WMB license. |
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| shanson |
| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:02 am Post subject: |
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Partisan
Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 344
Location: IBM Hursley
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| WTX does NOT ship with WMB. You have to purchase WTX for Integration Servers separately. |
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| zpat |
| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:35 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
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| I am sure that I saw "Transformation Broker Services" as an install option and we've never purchased WTX. |
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| shanson |
| Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:12 am Post subject: |
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Partisan
Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 344
Location: IBM Hursley
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| The installer listed 'Transformation Services' as a component to install. That was the difference between Message Broker and Event Broker - you did not get Transformation Services with Event Broker. It referred to broker's native transformation capability. |
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