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Message
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| QuentinB |
 Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:41 am Post subject: Cannot remove old cluster channels objects |
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Newbie
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Belgium - Brussels
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Hi there,
we took a queue manager out of a cluster following IBM procedure then we put it in a new cluster it seems to work but even when we define the cluster receiver channels using runmqsc commands or MQ Explorer 6, they are up&running but we cannot see it using runmqsc commands. We only see the old objects.
We can display these old objects but we cannot delete it or alter it because the system tells us that the objects do not exist!
DIS CLUSQMGR(*)
11 : dis clusqmgr(*)
AMQ8441: Display Cluster Queue Manager details.
CLUSQMGR(BDAIX1BD) CLUSTER(CLUSTER.XXXXXX)
CHANNEL(CLUSCH.BDAIX1BD.2)
DIS CHL(CLUSCH.BDAIX1BD.2) CHLTYPE
17 : DIS CHL(CLUSCH.BDAIX1BD.2) CHLTYPE
AMQ8147: WebSphere MQ object CLUSCH.BDAIX1BD.2 not found.
We tried to reset the old cluster from a full rep, to stop the queue manager an remove the ipcs, nothing works!
any idea?
working with MQ 5.3 csd 13 on AIX 5.3 |
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| Gaya3 |
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:16 am Post subject: Re: Cannot remove old cluster channels objects |
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Jedi
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 2493
Location: Boston, US
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| QuentinB wrote: |
| working with MQ 5.3 csd 13 on AIX 5.3 |
This is the problem, Upgrade to MQ V 6 with latest Refresh Pack atleast.
Regards
Gayathri
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Gayathri
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:45 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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| QuentinB wrote: |
DIS CLUSQMGR(*)
11 : dis clusqmgr(*)
AMQ8441: Display Cluster Queue Manager details.
CLUSQMGR(BDAIX1BD) CLUSTER(CLUSTER.XXXXXX)
CHANNEL(CLUSCH.BDAIX1BD.2)
DIS CHL(CLUSCH.BDAIX1BD.2) CHLTYPE
17 : DIS CHL(CLUSCH.BDAIX1BD.2) CHLTYPE
AMQ8147: WebSphere MQ object CLUSCH.BDAIX1BD.2 not found. |
Working as expected!.
These are autodefined cluster channels. The only way you can see something is using "dis chs(CLUSH.BDAIX1BD.2)" and if it comes back with no status you can issue a start chl on it and check the status right afterwards. If you have trouble with these channels you need to check the error logs of the qmgr mgr both at sending and receiving side.
To take on a new value you will have to stop then start the channel. Remember to only change the defined part of the channel (cluster receiver), stop it and start it. If any of the auto defined cluster senders did not pick up the change, stop it and start it as you would do with a defined channel.
The status may show you an IP address, [usual rant]but it is always bad policy to set up the channel (cluster receiver) with an IP address. You should use the DNS name. [/usual rant]
Finally to make sure you have the right cluster objects / channels you might want to go as far as issuing:
| Code: |
| dis clusqmgr(*) qmid |
Enjoy 
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| QuentinB |
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Newbie
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Belgium - Brussels
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dis chs(CLUSH.BDAIX1BD.2)
1 : dis chs(CLUSH.BDAIX1BD.2)
AMQ8420: Channel Status not found.
start channel(CLUSH.BDAIX1BD.2)
2 : start channel(CLUSH.BDAIX1BD.2)
AMQ8227: Channel CLUSH.BDAIX1BD.2 not found.
logs :
03/04/08 10:05:56
AMQ9457: Repository available, cluster CLUSTER.XXXXX, channel
CLUSCH.XXXXX.2, sender XXXXX_2008-02-27_15.23.51.
EXPLANATION:
The repository queue manager received a command from another queue manager,
whose identifier is XXXXX_2008-02-27_15.23.51, reporting that it is again a
repository for cluster CLUSTER.XXXX. The cluster-sender channel
CLUSCH.XXXX.2 is changed so that it can be used to access the other queue
manager in relation to the the cluster.
ACTION:
None.
The problem is that it's still referencing to the old cluster CLUSTER.XXXX while our new cluster is CLUSTER.XXXX.YY and that the concerned queue manager is well defined as part of this new cluster. |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:19 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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Verify the cluster name on fhe FR (repos, reposnl) and on the cluster objects (channels and queues) (cluster, clusternl).
Something out there still has the old cluster name.
Have fun.
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| QuentinB |
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Newbie
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Belgium - Brussels
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17 : dis qmgr repos
AMQ8408: Display Queue Manager details.
REPOS(CLUSTER.XXXXX.YY) QMNAME(QMNAME)
so this is ok, it belongs to the new cluster cluster.xxxx.yy but ..
when I display the cluster objects properties, it displays the objects that belongs to the old cluster cluster.xxxx :
DISPLAY CLUSQMGR(*) CLUSDATE CLUSTIME CLUSTER
14 : DISPLAY CLUSQMGR(*) CLUSDATE CLUSTIME CLUSTER
AMQ8441: Display Cluster Queue Manager details.
CLUSQMGR(QMNAME) CLUSTER(CLUSTER.XXXXX)
CHANNEL(CLUSCH....) CLUSTIME(10.05.56)
CLUSDATE(2008-03-04)
AMQ8441: Display Cluster Queue Manager details.
CLUSQMGR(QMNAME) CLUSTER(CLUSTER.XXXXX)
CHANNEL(CLUSCH....) CLUSTIME(14.18.01)
CLUSDATE(2008-03-03)
AMQ8441: Display Cluster Queue Manager details.
CLUSQMGR(QMNAME) CLUSTER(CLUSTER.XXXXX)
CHANNEL(CLUSCH....) CLUSTIME(14.08.00)
CLUSDATE(2008-03-03) |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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That's because you did not change the cluster receiver and cluster sender channels on the PRs changing the cluster name... 
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| QuentinB |
| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:43 am Post subject: |
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Newbie
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Belgium - Brussels
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First I want to thank you saper for answering 
I did change the cluster receiver channels , that's the first thing I did!
Anyway, it seems to work now, I've redefined cluster channels using replace option on the QM that was causing the problem.
now the problem is that this same queue manager always stays in suspend mode so in MQ Explorer we cannot see it within the cluster + we cannot see the cluster queues for this queue manager.
Using runmqsc then dis qmgr repos we see that it is in the cluster but in MQ Explorer when displaying QM properties the cluster name field is empty..
I tried with runmqsc commands and MQ Explorer :
resume qmgr cluster(...)
suspend qmgr cluster(...) then resume...
refresh cluster..
(as you may have notice I'm junior/newbie in MQ) |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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Forget using MQExplorer for administration of the cluster....
When in doubt fall back on runmqsc or MO72 (mqsc).
Depending on the MQ version the cluster commands and display with MQExplorer may be buggy. It is safe to fall back on runmqsc for this.
Usually I check that the command took effect by verifying on the FR where the PR, I issued the command on, is not attached to.
- Topology: FR1 and FR2 are full repositories
PR1 is attached to FR1
- Issue cluster command (action) on PR1
- Verify command took by checking on FR2
- Verify command took on FR1
- FR1 not OK go to b
- FR1 OK check again on FR2. If FR2 is still not OK check communications and channel status between FR1 and FR2. If everything is OK but the command is not showing on FR2 issue refresh cluster(mycluster) on FR2.
Wait until the messages between FRs are done (depends on cluster size) and verify the action is visible on FR2. (It usually is)
If the action is still not visible you may have to make the FR2 a PR for a minute and then a FR again.
- Beyond this you will find that the qmgrs repository program has given up the ghost... (needs qmgr restart -- nothing getting consumed from System Cluster Command queue) etc....
Enjoy
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| faustus |
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 12
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Hello,
We have the same Problem on an MQ Cluster.
One of our Partners have created an clusterchannelpair with our definitionfile. Latter, he has changed the definitionfile and create an channel like:
CLUSQMGR(QMGRNAME) CLUSTER(TIMBMK.SYSTEST)
CHANNEL(/REPOSNAME) QMID(QMGRNAME_2007-06-26_10.37.15)
STATUS(STARTING)
The name QMGRNAME is the correct name, but he uses the Channel from the FullRepository and increases it in the cluster. Then he delete the QMGR!!!
Our Problem is, that the wrong Channel can not be deleted on the Partnersystems in the Cluster with MQV5.3 and we have no administrative rights to recreate the QMGRs witch are on a running system in bilateral testing cluster.
I have tryed all the commands like reset , refresh ... . this dosnt effect the channel.
I think the on chance we had is to remove in the filesystem. On MQ V6 we have the folder "channels" wich hold the informations, but on V5.3 i cant find somthing. Can someone help me with this? |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:11 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| faustus wrote: |
| I think the on chance we had is to remove in the filesystem. |
If you mean going onto the OS filesystem and delete likely looking objects do not do this! The objects are administered by the queue manager, their sudden disappearance will confuse either a v5.3 or a v6.0 queue manager & at best will get you some interesting log messages. At worst your queue manager will stop working.
Working at a file level is never a good way of administering WMQ objects.
 
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Insanity is the best defence. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| faustus wrote: |
| Then he delete the QMGR!!! |
There's a procedure in the manual for removing non-existing queue managers from clusters
| faustus wrote: |
| Our Problem is, that the wrong Channel can not be deleted on the Partnersystems in the Cluster |
The question is why do you need to? If you have "right" channels correctly linking your cluster together, what's the problem?
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Insanity is the best defence. |
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| faustus |
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 12
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| Quote: |
faustus wrote:
Then he delete the QMGR!!!
There's a procedure in the manual for removing non-existing queue managers from clusters
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I know it, but the Partner knows not. I was called to help after this.
| Quote: |
faustus wrote:
Our Problem is, that the wrong Channel can not be deleted on the Partnersystems in the Cluster
The question is why do you need to? If you have "right" channels correctly linking your cluster together, what's the problem?
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The Cluster Resolution is in trouble, we can not see the Clusterqueues of the involved QMGR. The QMGR communicates with the defect channel and not with the correct one.
Please, im not a newbie, please answer when you can help.
parallel i'm going to open an PMR at the IBM Site. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:08 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| faustus wrote: |
| The Cluster Resolution is in trouble, we can not see the Clusterqueues of the involved QMGR. The QMGR communicates with the defect channel and not with the correct one. |
Pedantically the queue manager doesn't communicate with anything, the channel does.
So is your problem that the clusder sender channel for one of the FR is pointing at the now non-existent FR incorrectly deleted from the cluster? And attempts to point this at the new FR have failed? Which queue manager is not participating in the cluster? What channel messages exist in the log?
IMHO the way to fix this is to ensure the cluster is correctly defined, with correct connames & cluster names, get everything running properly.
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Insanity is the best defence. |
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| faustus |
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:22 am Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 12
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Ok, i try to explain our situation:
We have two MQv6 FR (administrated by us) and some PR (administrated be some Partners)
Our FRs are FR1 and FR2.
The PR1 is the Deleted QMGR
PR2 is the MQV6 QMGR
PR3 is an MQV5.3 QMGR.
PR1 defines an CLUSSRCVR named "PR1" with the CHLNAME "/FR1" and QMID "PR1...."
at now on all the PRs exists the automatic CLUSSDR "PR1" and the predefined CLUSSDR "/FR1" with QMID "FR1...".
Both uses the channel "/FR1"
Now the PR1 deletes the wrong and creates an correct CLUSSRCVR "PR1" with the CHLNAME"/PR1"
The Cluster resets the change.
On the MQv6 PR2 we can remove the wrong CLUSSDR named "PR1" with the CHLNAME "/FR1" via reset cluster... .
On the MQv5.3 we cant delete the CLUSSDR via reset cluster. Not with the QMID and not with the QMNAME.
The Problem is, that the QMGR PR2 is not actualisated by the FPs. All know ClusQueues works fine, but new Clussqueues where not communicated to the Cluster. At least i can sobmitt no changes from this QMGR. the commands work with no errors but nothing will be changed.
I will see wath the IBM says. I will be back on Monday. Thank you for the help. |
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