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| friedl.otto |
 Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:28 am Post subject: MQ Sanity Check. |
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Centurion
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 116
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I have perused both these fine threads:
http://www.mqseries.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3467
http://www.mqseries.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23119
Which almost deals with my predicament. Scrubbing runmqsc output using
bash/perl is just not pretty. And I decided to rather tackle the problem in
Java. But I thought that I would like my app to work (like runmqsc) even
when the listeners are down or the SVRCONNs dead i.e. bindings mode.
Is PCF the only way to get QMGR/CHANNEL status ... and can one use
good old bindings mode to filch the data?
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Here's an idea - don't destroy semaphores unless you're certain of what you're doing!  -- Vitor |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:45 am Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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Uhm.
You shouldn't waste a lot of time writing this. You should buy and implement a monitoring solution, instead.
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I am *not* the model of the modern major general. |
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| friedl.otto |
| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:24 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 116
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We did ... QPASA ... not so cool.
Besides ... no monitoring tool on the planet will give a super-accurate
super-brief heads-up of the status quo on a machine while you're ssh'ed
into a server from your PDA. 
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Here's an idea - don't destroy semaphores unless you're certain of what you're doing! -- Vitor |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| friedl.otto wrote: |
| We did ... QPASA ... not so cool. |
Why? It's not that bad. What happened?
| friedl.otto wrote: |
| Besides ... no monitoring tool on the planet will give a quick heads-up of the status quo on while I'm ssh'ed into a server from my PDA. |
There are a number of reasons for this. Not least of which is why you'd want to check it from a PDA (assuming you're away from your desk and performing some social activity) or what you'd do when a problem was reported except run to the nearest keyboard to do something (assuming you've not got an entire admin desktop on the PDA).
This seems similar to the guy who sold me the alarm system for my house. As I'm on site a lot, he suggested buying an add-on that would ring me when the alarm went off. I pointed out it was useless, given that by the time I got home the place would have burned to the ground or the intruder would be long gone.....
I stand with jefflowrey on this. Though you could reinvent the wheel (and possibly innovate a wheel that runs on a PDA) the TOC is unlikely to be lower than for a commercial monitoring product.
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| friedl.otto |
| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:22 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 116
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I don't particularly like badmouthing products I know very little about, and
QPASA is no exception, so let's just say that mojo fell on the ground
somewhere between IBM, the vendor doing the installation/configuration
and our onsite technical resource.
I have done training on NetCool (two years ago) and that wasn't too
pretty either. Both tools allow you to very easily paint yourself into a
corner. And yes, enterprise-class technical resources are supposed to
have IQs over 125, but Managers should have business insight and people
skills too. 
The reason I am saying this is that you need a million and one agents
(which needs SysAdmins and possibly NetAdmins), you need to have all
manner persistence (thus Oracle/Sybase/DB2 DBA), and when some non-
elite resource logs onto a machine, I'd like them to run a simple check
before flinging a twelve dimensional tantrum about stupid old MQ being
broken ... yet again.
So if Cerebral P Cortex so much as sighs without checking the state of
affairs I want to shove a copy of the Linux Kernel Code (printed in 12pt
Courier New, on A4 80gsm bond) down his/her throat all the way to
his/her coccyx!
Besides I am sans certification in both Java and MQ ... what better way to
teach yourself than to learn hands-on!
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Here's an idea - don't destroy semaphores unless you're certain of what you're doing! -- Vitor |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:36 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| friedl.otto wrote: |
I don't particularly like badmouthing products I know very little about, and
QPASA is no exception, so let's just say that mojo fell on the ground
somewhere between IBM, the vendor doing the installation/configuration
and our onsite technical resource. |
I'm not suggesting badmouthing, I'm suggesting the sharing of your experience, good and bad, with the wider reading community. Many people use the forum as a source of information when evaluating product & I feel certain they'd be interested in your experiences, especially if they're trying something similar themselves.
Not entirely relevant here perhaps; could I suggest you post your expereinces in the Monitoring section? I feel they'd have value.
| friedl.otto wrote: |
I'd like them to run a simple check
before flinging a twelve dimensional tantrum about stupid old MQ being
broken ... yet again. |
Achieving that with only a piece of software will be an achievement! I suspect that even in this situation you'll still get complaints; it might be working but their message didn't show up at the desired target. This is clearly the fault of MQ and not the put failing / them using the wrong queue name / etc /etc.
| friedl.otto wrote: |
So if Cerebral P Cortex so much as sighs without checking the state of
affairs I want to shove a copy of the Linux Kernel Code (printed in 12pt
Courier New, on A4 80gsm bond) down his/her throat all the way to
his/her coccyx! |
I think you'll find a trout is the recommended weapon.
| friedl.otto wrote: |
| Besides I am sans certification in both Java and MQ ... what better way to teach yourself than to learn hands-on! |
They invented these things called "training courses" a few years back that help a lot. 
There are certainly easier MQ programming constructs to learn on than the PCF messages. The task you've taken on is non-trivial (hence my comment on TCO) both in terms of extracting the data and presenting it.
And how do you plan to use a binding connection from a PDA anyway?
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| friedl.otto |
| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:54 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 116
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| Vitor wrote: |
I'm not suggesting badmouthing, I'm suggesting the sharing of your experience, good and bad, with the wider reading community. Many people use the forum as a source of information when evaluating product & I feel certain they'd be interested in your experiences, especially if they're trying something similar themselves.
Not entirely relevant here perhaps; could I suggest you post your expereinces in the Monitoring section? I feel they'd have value.
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Since the QPasa project isn't mine, I'd like to refrain from saying anything
else than: "I have been receiving armies of pointless alerts of late, and
that, after a few months of various people wrestling with the app."
| Vitor wrote: |
| Achieving that with only a piece of software will be an achievement! I suspect that even in this situation you'll still get complaints; it might be working but their message didn't show up at the desired target. This is clearly the fault of MQ and not the put failing / them using the wrong queue name / etc /etc. |
One day, when I have exeeded 'Vitor the Vicious' in gruffness, I will prove
that one can run a tidy EAI ship, even if it means the gratuitous use of
psychologically debilitating sadism. You'll just see!
| Vitor wrote: |
I think you'll find a trout is the recommended weapon.
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I kinda like the dull *thud* made by the sheer weight of a ream (or
three). I will however abide by the wishes of the collective and wield a
standard issue Trout.
| Vitor wrote: |
They invented these things called "training courses" a few years back that help a lot.
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Oh you mean those things where people cram 'braindumps' so that they
can get a certificate, (to wheedle a job out of some technically paraplegic
HR/Management goons) so that they can post "My queue doesn't start" on
MQSeries.net?
| Vitor wrote: |
There are certainly easier MQ programming constructs to learn on than the PCF messages. The task you've taken on is non-trivial (hence my comment on TCO) both in terms of extracting the data and presenting it.
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Believe me ... if you are coding in the chimp cage ... TCO means nothing!
| Vitor wrote: |
And how do you plan to use a binding connection from a PDA anyway? |
In the same way that runmqsc works beautifully over ssh on a PDA.
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Here's an idea - don't destroy semaphores unless you're certain of what you're doing! -- Vitor |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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Right, so.
Even if you write this, you can't guarantee that your ...users will use it.
There's nothing different about sending & receiving PCF messages than sending & receiving any other MQ messages, other than the message itself...
So, bindings/client... doesn't matter.
Since there is an ongoing project to implement QPasa, you are much better spending your effort a) making it work the way you want it, b) training your users on how to use it. An excess of spurious alerts is not a problem with the product, it's a problem with your implementation.
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I am *not* the model of the modern major general. |
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| friedl.otto |
| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 116
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| jefflowrey wrote: |
Right, so.
Even if you write this, you can't guarantee that your ...users will use it.
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Oh believe me, once you've seen what I want to do, you'll have to admit it
makes the Star-Trek LCARS interfaces look useless!
| jefflowrey wrote: |
There's nothing different about sending & receiving PCF messages than sending & receiving any other MQ messages, other than the message itself...
So, bindings/client... doesn't matter.
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Goody!
| jefflowrey wrote: |
Since there is an ongoing project to implement QPasa, you are much better spending your effort a) making it work the way you want it, b) training your users on how to use it.
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It is not my baby, I will not raise the ill-begotten bastards of others.
| jefflowrey wrote: |
| An excess of spurious alerts is not a problem with the product, it's a problem with your implementation. |
That is why I wish to abstain from comment. I do however have a
problem with a tool that still gives grief after the vendor has slept onsite
for quite some time.
So much for quickly/simply Install, Configure and Enjoy! 
_________________
Here's an idea - don't destroy semaphores unless you're certain of what you're doing! -- Vitor |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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| friedl.otto wrote: |
| jefflowrey wrote: |
you can't guarantee that your ...users will use it.
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Oh believe me, once you've seen what I want to do, you'll have to admit it
makes the Star-Trek LCARS interfaces look useless! |
You can lead a horse to water...
| friedl.otto wrote: |
| jefflowrey wrote: |
Since there is an ongoing project to implement QPasa, you are much better spending your effort a) making it work the way you want it, b) training your users on how to use it.
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It is not my baby, I will not raise the ill-begotten bastards of others. |
Yes, but apparently it's still yelling in your ear.
| friedl.otto wrote: |
| So much for quickly/simply Install, Configure and Enjoy! |
It's the "Configure" step that always confuses people about monitoring. They expect that their local situation is "common" and "sensible", and therefore it should just be a matter of flipping some switches and everything will "Just Work'.
They also believe that they actually know what their normal operating parameters are, and how their environment behaves.
It takes time to tune a monitoring configuration, that's all there is to it. It takes time to discover the things you're watching too hard and time to find out the things you didn't think you needed to watch at all.
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I am *not* the model of the modern major general. |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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| jefflowrey wrote: |
| It takes time to tune a monitoring configuration, that's all there is to it. It takes time to discover the things you're watching too hard and time to find out the things you didn't think you needed to watch at all. |
Oh so true... So can you ignore the baby when it wails for less than 5 mins or is your threshold 10 mins?
What if when the alert goes off you need not take care of the baby but make sure the environment is baby friendly for it go back to sleep?? (Typical: Network problem)
These are growing pains and it DOES take time to go through them.
Nobody grew a mom and pop business into a multi billion $ corporation in a single day.
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