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| sajid08 |
 Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:55 pm Post subject: Accessing Services from ESB and Broker |
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Novice
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Karachi
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Hi All!
Sorry for keep disturbing you people time to time, but as we are in the choosing phase of a middleware, we have lots of questions and confusions, so hope you people will help.
WebSphere ESB works with xml only and it is recommended for use with WebServices (by IBM). Our data format would be xml no-problem, but we wont be using web services only, infact web services would be only a small proportion of the total services, the other services would be in the form of classes exposing the functionallity different applications. Those classes would be most likely be written in two technologies, Java and .Net. We'd need to access these services from the middleware we chose. Can we invoke objects of such classes from ESB?, Also there is a concept of SCA.
The sequence would be something like:
xml Object call
Application ------> ESB --------------> Service
The same question if we use Message Broker can we make object calls to the services from Broker?
and last plz recommend if anyone like us who wont like to use Web Services, what type of services should he use?
Regards,
Sajid. |
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| jbanoop |
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Chevalier
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 401
Location: SC
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On the current project I am on, we have a mix of web-services based interfaces and q based interfaces.
What comes naturally to the broker is queue based services, put the message (from broker ) on a request q and recv the response on a specified reply q/mutally agreed upon reply q (which would be the start point for the reply flow for the broker).
In V 6 u even have the option of send/recv in the same flow (basically sync communicaiton) using the MQGet node.
Hope it helps,
Regards,
Anoop |
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| sajid08 |
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Karachi
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Thanks Anoop,
I am really interested in the services thing, waiting for more replies... |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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What does it mean "invoke objects of such classes"?
How?
_________________
I am *not* the model of the modern major general. |
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| sajid08 |
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Karachi
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| most of our services would be exposed as classes, and those classes would be residing on the same machine. In order to call those services (classes), we'd need to make object of them and then call the appropriate methods. Is that making of objects for classes possible in ESB?, Is that possible in Broker?, Or am I just talking about non-sense?, Suggestions very welcomed!! |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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As far as I know, you can only make an object out of a class inside a program.
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I am *not* the model of the modern major general. |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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I think you need to read up on how webservices work and their implementation in java and .Net through proxies.
Enjoy 
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MQ & Broker admin |
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| elvis_gn |
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Padawan
Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 1905
Location: Dubai
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Hi sajid08,
By classes i'm hoping you mean that the methods of the class will be called to do ur business processing....
If so, yes message broker can definitely do it...but its not a WebService still...you will then have to wrap that invocation in a HTTP flow...
I know that ESB can work with any protocol, including ftp, http etc...but i'm not sure whether ESB can create services out of your existing non-service and non-xml business...for that u should bring in message broker I suppose...
Regards. |
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| sajid08 |
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Karachi
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I know how web services work in .Net, we add their proxy and then make object of those proxies, to be able to call the real web service, I think something similar would be there in Java as well.
But the problem is we are not talking about web services here rather services other then the web service. How would be we able to call them? |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:34 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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Use message broker ? If it is not xml you will have to. We use the message broker and the service call is over JMS/MQ
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| sajid08 |
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Karachi
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OK, Please tell me what are the services options we have other then the Web Services, meaning what other types of services we can make that can be accessed by:
(i) ESB
(ii)Broker
Plus, which technologies (java, .net) can we use in making those services.
Regards,
Sajid. |
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| elvis_gn |
| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:00 am Post subject: |
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Padawan
Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 1905
Location: Dubai
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Hi sajid08,
Something I got from the IBM site
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Where the IT infrastructure has applications that all conform to Web Services standards, then WebSphere ESB provides the standards-based service integration required.
A more advanced ESB is needed when a business needs to connect all applications to the ESB, not just those that conform to Web Services standards. WebSphere Message Broker delivers an advanced ESB offering universal connectivity and any-to-any transformation providing your business with a robust and flexible integration solution. |
Link:http://www-306.ibm.com/software/info1/websphere/index.jsp?tab=landings/esb&S_TACT=102A9W01&S_CMP=campaign
In Broker, u can have WebService, SOAP/JMS service, MQ Services, FTP. The point is that everything can be called a service if it is generic enough to use across your business....SOA has 5 levels of services...a complete WebService driven architecture is the level 5...the rest are still services even though they might not be Web Services...
If you say that 'x' of your back-end systems will call a single MQQueue for some information, then that MQ linked flow is a service too....I think you need to get the clarity here on a SOA run business...ofcourse, i'm not the one to give that 
Concerning the Java .Net: Java seems to be a better option as u'll find a lot of support, plus, there is a thread running here right now about .Net v2.1 not working or something...anyway, I can't make a decision on that for you...especially coz i don't know .Net
Regards. |
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| sajid08 |
| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Karachi
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Anoop,
Just wanted to ask you, you say the broker puts messages on the request queue where from Application/Service picks it up does the processing and puts it onto the reply queue where from broker returns it to the requesting application.
In this scenario the application or service that fulfils the request needs to actively listen on the request queue and whenever a message arrives there it picks that up and then does the rest. If we have several applications/services they'll all need to listen to queues and we'd have to achieve that manually?. Am I understanding your point right?
Also the role of broker in this case only seems to be recieve the message, transform it if required, look up for queue it is meant, and put it there, and then the reverse cycle? |
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| jbanoop |
| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Chevalier
Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 401
Location: SC
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sajid08,
There are many ways an application can poll on a queue and it is not an uncommon sight.. the services here are predominantly java/j2ee and it can be accomplished very easily by api calls or MDBs or the sorts..
As for MB acting just as a router, if you can position an EAI solution's role in an enterprise, then that is exactly what the broker fulifills.
it is upto you what you want to do within the broker and waht business logic you want to write into the flows..
I in my previous post was simply tryin to address the question you had about the types of services and how broker deals with them..
Regards,
Anoop |
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| sajid08 |
| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Karachi
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Anoop,
Thanks for the quick reply,
If we do this using WebSphere ESB, which uses JMS, can we put messages similarly to the MQ queues, or would we have to use the MQLink to be able to do that and also Is there a better way of doing this in ESB, rather then putting messages to queue?
Regards,
Sajid. |
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