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| The WMQ Server license cost |
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| Which product would you consider using that implements ESB stack requirements |
| IBM's MQSeries, WBIMB, MQ workflow |
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83% |
[ 5 ] |
| IBM's WAS 6.0 (including SIB, WPS, etc.) |
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16% |
[ 1 ] |
| SeeBeyond (Sun now) |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Vitria |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| WebMethods |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Tibco |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| BEA product suite |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| other |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 6 |
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| Author |
Message
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| vilyin |
 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject: The WMQ Server license cost |
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Novice
Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 20
Location: Ilyin Consulting Knowledge, Inc. USA - Boston, NY tri-state
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Hi all,
We are trying to figure out if we want to continue using IBM in this new coming year or not. So the first step to make to figure it out was to revisit licensing maintanence pricing/cost.
I was wondering if you could share how much you pay for the MQSereis and/or WBIMB and/or WAS and/or Process Choreographer licence maintanance.
From talking to couple friends of mine so far I've heard numbers in a range of $14-42/per CPU.
It looks like a huge range to me.
Just to give you an idea about the size of the enviroenmnt:
let's say in total we have about 100 CPUs across all the environments for MQ, 10 CPUs in total for the broker, 100CPUs for WAS and 10CPUs for WBISF
Pretty much all of these are currently at MQ 5.3.0.11, wbi MB 5.0.4, WAS 5.1.1.7, wbi SF(PC) 5.1.2 (I think).
If you don't feel comfortable posting your response in a open here on the forum I would appreciate if you could PBM me with a response.
Thanks and cheers!!!!!!!
Vitaliy |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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Wrong part of the poll. The reason: for a full SOA - ESB stack you will probably need both of your IBM items on the list.
Restricting yourself to choose the one or the other is really a choice of where are you willing to compromize part of your stack.
Enjoy 
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MQ & Broker admin |
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| vilyin |
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 20
Location: Ilyin Consulting Knowledge, Inc. USA - Boston, NY tri-state
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fjb_saper,
Interesting response! But with all do respect it's not an entirely correct one.
I guess, you don't completely understand what comprises ESB stack.
First of all I have to mention that I didn't introduce SOA into my post's discussion on purpose. The reason being is that I wanted to segregate Application layer from the Infrstaructure one.
SOA is an application abstraction - Service Oriented Architecture - Services that can be implemented in any language and externalised as any interface. Most popular "ways" for the externalization now days seem to be WS implementaion based on SOAP/http or SOAP/jms with or without UDDI OR MQ/jms to the WBIMB.
ESB - is a concept that covers a notion of an Enterprise Service Bus - which is the layer for connecting the mentioned above SOA components.
ESB layers include:
1) messaging
2) App server functionality including Transactionality, pooling, etc.
3) mediation (routing, formatting and transformation)
4) BPM (business process management)
5) Workflow management
6) modeling
7) monitoring
Historically IBM had 2 different implementations of the same stack - one that is based on MOM and the other one that is based on WAS. Now IBM is making an attemp to merge these two. WAS6 is the first take on it.
So, if you understood both ESB and SOA concept and also know and understand IBM's products suite as well IBM's direction you would also understand the difference between these two.
MQ/WBIMB is a heavy weight/ high cost solution and
WAS6 is a J2EE/light weigth/first cut/low cost one
Hop it helps.
Cheers,
Vitaliy |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:58 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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But if you look at your 2 Stacks they supply different support for different environments. If you are a "true" Web environment (WEB + JCA CICS) the WAS stack might just be sufficient for you.
But if you have to integrate a lot of heterogenous environments and are Web facing you might need the Web stack + broker...
So depending where you are coming from or where you are going to you might need to poach into both stacks....
Enjoy 
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MQ & Broker admin |
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| vilyin |
| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:16 am Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 20
Location: Ilyin Consulting Knowledge, Inc. USA - Boston, NY tri-state
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fjb_saper,
Looks like my poll got us distracted from my original question, so what I am gona do is I'll keep this topic to continue ESB/SOA discussion and will repost my original MQ licensing question in a separate new topic - only this time without any polls  .
Ok, now going back to our dicsussion:
| Quote: |
| But if you have to integrate a lot of heterogenous environments and are Web facing you might need the Web stack + broker... |
Well, you always need a broker... of some sort. "Broker" is just a name that describes a concept (unless you meant to explicitely refer to the WBI MB). CIS(Crossworld) is a broker, WBIMB is one of the implementations of a message broker, ORB is an object broker, etc. What broker does is transform, route(direct, redirect), format, etc. This functionality IS now sort of implemented in WAS by mediation. To connect to heteregeneous environments you will use adapters. WBIA for example can use both ICS and WBIMB as a broker.
But I do agree with you - the choice does highly depend on where you are coming from and what you are trying to accomplish: What you already have implemented($$$ invested), what expertise you have in a house, etc. My point is that if you are trying to save $$$ and you don't need a full stregth that WBIMB based solution provides you and you are a J2EE shop (you programmers talk j2ee and not messaging, let alone esql) than you are absoultely fine choosing a pure Application server based solution.
Cheers,
Vitaliy |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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| vilyin wrote: |
| the choice does highly depend on where you are coming from and what you are trying to accomplish: What you already have implemented($$$ invested), what expertise you have in a house, etc. |
Then how exactly do you expect us to give you a good answer?
Since you agree that this problem is highly dependant on site specific factors, doesn't it seem reasonable that you should do analysis on those site specific factors, and come up with an answer that makes sense for your situation?
If you can't afford the maintenance on WebSphere MQ, then you don't have a good business case to use WebSphere MQ. Either the features of the product provide you sufficient business value to cover the mainteance or they don't. And if they don't, you need to then determine if it's going to be cheaper to migrate to something else. Maybe it's actually cheaper to stay with MQ.
But making a Poll is only going to get people to give you their personally biased answer, and not the kind of well-thought out answer you seem to be looking for.
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I am *not* the model of the modern major general. |
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| vilyin |
| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 20
Location: Ilyin Consulting Knowledge, Inc. USA - Boston, NY tri-state
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| Quote: |
| But making a Poll is only going to get people to give you their personally biased answer, and not the kind of well-thought out answer you seem to be looking for. |
Jeff,
I agree. It would be really stupid of me to even think that a poll could actually help make such a dicision. Of course I didn't count on it. I just wanted to see what people think. And actually if you look back to the begining of the topic you'll see that my original question was about trying to figure out what people pay for maintanace.
After I wrote the question I just thought it would be interesting to "poll" people's opinions on the ESB subject. I neither thought nor meant this poll to transform into discussion. Not that it's bad that it did.
Thanks,
Vitaliy |
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