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| The downside of the coin. |
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| emiranda |
 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:38 am Post subject: The downside of the coin. |
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Disciple
Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 196
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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Just to keep the (good) discussion we started in the other room http://www.mqseries.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24083:
Of course the skillset is the most important thing to be consider, and I can understand if the government keep a rule to protect your own citizens jobs, BUT if you don't have qualified people available, why not sponsor these high-qualified professionals instead of take people from "Universities of McDonalds" (as was said) and train them?
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Warm Regards,
EM |
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| JLRowe |
| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:18 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 664
Location: South East London
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There needs to be a balance.
Business may complain that they cannot get people with the skills, but they mean they cannot get people with the skills at the right rate. There is a big difference. |
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| emiranda |
| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:28 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 196
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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Yeah, and this is also a problem once people from "less favored" countries will accept low rates to get a work visa. It's a snowball!
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EM |
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| sebastianhirt |
| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:48 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 620
Location: Germany
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| Quote: |
BUT if you don't have qualified people available, why not sponsor these high-qualified professionals instead of take people from "Universities of McDonalds" (as was said) and train them?
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Well, the problem is that even the high qualified people need to come from somewhere. I started my Job here at the age of 19. Directly coming from school. I didn't even know what Middleware or EAI nor what MQSeries is about. They gave me a chance, and in the meanwhile (after 2 years) I became the 2 most senior MQSeries persons in our team (am not claiming to be a pro though). I mean to some extend you need people from the "MCDonalds University" because professionals are not just there. Beeing professional is nothing that you are, it's something that people with the right mind and the right attitude become.
| Quote: |
| Business may complain that they cannot get people with the skills, but they mean they cannot get people with the skills at the right rate. There is a big difference |
If you look at Job offers, many businesses are requsting skillsets that almost nobody can possibly fullfill.
They want people that know all about everything, have a university degree better 2 or 3, 35 years of experience, are not older than 23 and are working at a rate of 30k or less Euro a year.
my 0.02$ |
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| emiranda |
| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:07 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 196
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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As JLRowe said, need to be a balance... a balance btw juniors/seniors hirings, btw low/high qualified workers. So why not also a balance btw non-sponsored/sponsored workers?
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| bduncan |
| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Padawan
Joined: 11 Apr 2001
Posts: 1554
Location: Silicon Valley
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I'm all for giving the job to whomever is most qualified, citizen or not - because, and I'm only going on anecdotal evidence here, but it seems like many of the visa workers who came to Silicon Valley over the years have made the transition to full U.S. citizens. They seem to have a great desire to become integrated into American society, and many of those I know personally seem to know more about our government's structure and U.S. history than I ever learned!
The real problem as I see it is that after 9/11 the government put major restrictions on the number of high tech visas we were handing out. This meant 2 things:
1. Silicon Valley companies couldn't bring in the necessary talent from abroad, and we know it's not sufficient locally (just look at the decline in number of engineering/C.S. degrees being handed out in American universities), so they end up having yet another reason to outsource, which is what they're doing more and more. I work at a startup, and I've learned firsthand that if you've got a great idea, and you're pitching it to the Venture Capitalists, they won't even listen to you if your business plan doesn't have some offshoring component.
2. These very bright and motivated people who would have been able to come here and work in the U.S. are staying at home. Which means that in places like India and China, these folks are starting their own businesses, and ultimately becoming competitors to American businesses.
Rather than trying to prevent offshoring (which in my opinion is futile) we should make the alternative more appealing. Make it as easy as possible for American companies to bring in the needed talent, and try to do something to convince more of our young people to take up science/engineering (it seems like everyone wants to be a lawyer or real estate agent these days!).
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| RogerLacroix |
| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 3264
Location: London, ON Canada
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Hi,
Just a slight clarification to:
| bduncan wrote: |
| The real problem as I see it is that after 9/11 the government put major restrictions on the number of high tech visas we were handing out. |
Actually, the H1B visa limit was 65,000 in the mid to late 90's then a lobby group pushed the USA government to temporarily increase it to roughly 200,000. The temporary limit had an expiry of either every 2 or 3 years. I believe it was extended once and then the last time, it was not extended. Hence, the H1B visa limit reverted to 65,000.
I believe the limit should be higher than 65,000 with the proviso that companies don't use it to exploit cheap labor.
Now being a Canadian, I don't have much say in this matter but I did work in the USA for several years but was not affect by H1B limit. I had a TN visa that falls under the NAFTA rules.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
Regards,
Roger Lacroix
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:03 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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| bduncan wrote: |
| try to do something to convince more of our young people to take up science/engineering (it seems like everyone wants to be a lawyer or real estate agent these days!). |
Well ain't that swell ? Get real watch a little TV. Who gets the money ? The lawyers. Who gets elected official and gets to handle money and power (and be corrupt...) the lawyers... So why wouldn't everybody want to be one ?
Look at a cut of the elected bodies: Congress and Senate.
What is the percentage of lawyers?
Thank god this country has a few other professions but they seem vastly underrepresented. One more reason why you'll never get a cap to 3 times the dammages for an award to a single non charity entity.
A hot cup of coffee? Worth US$ 2,000,000 ... please... Award the plaintif a max of $ 5,000 and award the rest to a charity like the Red Cross ...
Would make the world a much nicer place to live. Stupidity and greed should not be rewarded....
The trouble: a lot of lawyers would be out of business. The downside IT IS N E V E R GOING TO HAPPEN. Why should elected official pass a law hurting their profession or their peers ?
Just my 0.02 cents.  |
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| bduncan |
| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Padawan
Joined: 11 Apr 2001
Posts: 1554
Location: Silicon Valley
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Well, people like Bush seem to be more beholden to big businesses than to the lawyer's groups, and we all know how much big businesses like getting sued by lawyers for tons of money, so perhaps his tort reform bill will decrease these frivilous lawsuits. Of course, then you run the risk of making businesses too untouchable... So pick your poison I guess 
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| xxx |
| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 137
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http://murthy.com/visadate.html
one more downside is not allowing people from India who came to us after 1998 to get the green card ,
I did spend last 6 + years finding a way to live in the great country US,
cheated by H1 companies , exploited by Employers , doing 3 rd shifts , covering weekends and working more hours with no pays ,
just a dream that one day I will get Green Card !
It took 3 + years to find a employer who will process a GC , but today the law changed and now I have to wait indefinetly on the Mercy of my employer who charges be huge amount, but pays me peanuts ,
Just wondering how many years is worth waiting for GC in US ?
I would have gone to any Nation in the world , but I choose US , I have canada PR , still I want to be in US ,
I hope one day this great nation will have a better of selecting people than just the head count ,
as you have xxxxx no from india and there are only 4 from a Algeria , you have to wait in 10 + years , where as some one who comes on Lottery even with no education can get his GC on Day one and enjoy the benifits ,
Just unfair |
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| kevinf2349 |
| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1311
Location: USA
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My story of the INS is bordering on an epic. after 7 years of waiting and paying for an annual Employment card I still have not got been issued my green card. Now here is the kicker....I married a American citizen 8 years ago having already previously arrived in the US on a H1B (specifically to work as an MQ Series consultant).
I am almost at the point of hoping I don't get it anytime soon so that I can see if I can set some sort of record  ....... and the other irony? I designed and implented the OFAC solution that is in use by my company to comply with the Patriot act!  |
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