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| WannaBeInAParker |
 Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:12 am Post subject: Java on MVS/Tandem/DEC |
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Voyager
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 81
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All,
I have jumped on the java bandwagon and begun developing in Java. I completely understand how Java is cross platform since there is a JVM that sits between the code and the actually platform specific code generated by the JVM.
Java is cross platform as long as there is a JVM on the destination platform. Is there such an animal on Tandem (HPNSK), DEC Alpha VMS and MVS? Does anyone have any experience with Java programs running in these environments accessing a local Queue Manager.
When faced with the decision of C versus Java, at least C is supported in all environments (with a substantial coding effort) and the code can be run. Wtih Java, if there is no JVM, you are screwed.
-WannaBe- |
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| hankknowles |
| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Java on MVS/Tandem/DEC |
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Centurion
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 114
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| WannaBeInAParker wrote: |
All,
I have jumped on the java bandwagon and begun developing in Java. I completely understand how Java is cross platform since there is a JVM that sits between the code and the actually platform specific code generated by the JVM.
Java is cross platform as long as there is a JVM on the destination platform. Is there such an animal on Tandem (HPNSK), DEC Alpha VMS and MVS? Does anyone have any experience with Java programs running in these environments accessing a local Queue Manager.
When faced with the decision of C versus Java, at least C is supported in all environments (with a substantial coding effort) and the code can be run. Wtih Java, if there is no JVM, you are screwed.
Well I have a java encrypt/decrypt running in OSS on G06.23 Tandems. The mqseries requires MA88 to work with JAVA stuff!
HTH
-WannaBe- |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Java on MVS/Tandem/DEC |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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WebSphere App Server runs on z/OS so there has to be a JVM in there somewhere.
You can also run Linux on z/OS, so you could get at a JVM that way, too.
C can only run on machines for which you have a C compiler. So it is no less dependant on external things than Java is.
The best place to start looking for a JVM for a particular platform is http://java.sun.com/
You will need some version of the Java API For WebSphere MQ classes installed in order to make a connection to a queue manager from Java. The good news, though, is that the Java/JMS API classes are "100% pure Java", so you can simply copy jar files from one platform to another (in the usual manner you copy jar files), put them on the classpath, and you'll be good to go. I've done this on odd platforms and had success.
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I am *not* the model of the modern major general. |
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| EddieA |
| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi
Joined: 28 Jun 2001
Posts: 2453
Location: Los Angeles
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| Quote: |
| so you can simply copy jar files from one platform to another (in the usual manner you copy jar files), put them on the classpath, and you'll be good to go |
As long as you only use Client mode. I think Bindings requires a platform dependant library.
Cheers,
_________________
Eddie Atherton
IBM Certified Solution Developer - WebSphere Message Broker V6.1
IBM Certified Solution Developer - WebSphere Message Broker V7.0 |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:41 am Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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| EddieA wrote: |
| Quote: |
| so you can simply copy jar files from one platform to another (in the usual manner you copy jar files), put them on the classpath, and you'll be good to go |
As long as you only use Client mode. I think Bindings requires a platform dependant library. |
Oh, err... yeah.
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I am *not* the model of the modern major general. |
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| WannaBeInAParker |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:22 am Post subject: |
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Voyager
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 81
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I agree that a C Compiler is required, but the major difference in my mind is that it is not required at runtime (by the client). If I develop a C application, the client is not required to have the compiler installed at their site. From what I have seen in people's Tandem/DEC/MVS platforms more times than not the JVM will not be installed. It is just another hastle for the client to run your product and could turn off the potential client from purchasing your product.
Has anyone developed a java application with MQSeries and ran into issues with a JVM not being installed and had to switch to C or some other language?
-WannaBe- |
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| JLRowe |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 664
Location: South East London
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| I'd *much* rather install a JVM than write cross-platform C code peppered with #ifdef's to account for behaviour on different platforms. The thought of doing that again make's me shudder. |
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| WannaBeInAParker |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:25 am Post subject: |
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Voyager
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 81
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This is not a question of what I would much rather do. Obviously it is a no brainer --- Java. It is a question of the work a potential client of your product needs to do and whether they would purchase your product if the extra work was needed.
My point is I keep hearing about Java and its cross platform abilities, yet I have very little proof of people actually developing applications in Java to work across Distrivbuted/MidRange/Mainframe systems. I would love to talk to someone who has.
-WannaBe- |
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| bower5932 |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 27 Aug 2001
Posts: 3023
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
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| WannaBeInAParker wrote: |
| Has anyone developed a java application with MQSeries and ran into issues with a JVM not being installed and had to switch to C or some other language? |
Not MQ, but my kid ran into this problem. He wanted to do a science experiment on computer speeds and was going to write a program in java. He found that it was a whole lot easier to write it in C and copy it around than it was to write it in java and hope a JVM was installed.
However, this more on 'personal' computer and not on 'business' computers. |
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| WannaBeInAParker |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Voyager
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 81
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This is a very good small scale example of what I am finding.
-WanneBe- |
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| JLRowe |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 664
Location: South East London
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If you are writing commercial software then you can use installshield to install a JVM, it's a simple dependency and a lot of non-trivial applications will have dependencies (try writing C code for linux, and having to make sure a particular version of GTK is installed).
With regards to windows, we all know that microsoft decided to play awkward after trying to pollute the core API with their win32 filth. Windows used to ship with a stunted old JVM, it now ships with none. However, the build on a lot of new PC's (dell, IBM, HP + others) come with the SUN JVM pre-installed. Failing that, the consumer Java site at www.java.com gives users a pretty easy download and install experience. |
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| WannaBeInAParker |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Voyager
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 81
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Thats interesting, does InstallShield run on Tandem/DEC/MVS? My guess is no. I think people are missing my question. Java is great for the Distributed systems, the support is obviously there. My concerns are with the Midrange or Mainframe systems. I do not think Installshield helps me out there. I cannot imagine that people are using Java as cross platform as advertised. I am looking for anyone with experience using java across the board (distributed/midrange/mainframe). As of yet, I have not met such a person.
-WannaBe- |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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Just as an FYI.
We develop our java applications on Windows (IBM visual Studio) and deploy them on AIX.
If that's not a cross platform exemple I don't know what is.
We even did this with SAP's JCO.
For deployment just a different classpath and a few additional libraries LIBRARY_PATH and PATH settings.
All ran fine.
Enjoy |
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| WannaBeInAParker |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Voyager
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 81
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That handles the distributed (which is not aproblem), how about Midrange and Mainframe. Have you tried to run on these environments?
-WannaBe- |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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We do not run either Linux for Z/OS or java for Z/OS on our mainframe.
Even so anything custom we have in C needs to be recompiled on the mainframe.
Enjoy |
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