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| Vitor |
 Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:57 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| gbaddeley wrote: |
| MQ Clustering goes a long way towards your goal. Spread the load across many app hosts, so that at least one app host can be unavailable at a time for maintenance, and the others will take up all the load. |
Or a network load balancer.
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Insanity is the best defence. |
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| rekarm01 |
| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:04 am Post subject: Re: How do you do 24 X 7 X 365? |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 1415
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| RAN001 wrote: |
| No matter what we read, Multi Instance, Clustering, etc we cannot see a way that we keep access to all the messages all the time. |
MQ clusters and queue manager groups can provide higher queue availability, and HA & MIQM can provide higher message availability, but there are still situations when a planned outage requires stopping a queue manager completely. That's unavoidable.
| RAN001 wrote: |
| For what they are charging for these products this should not be an issue. Users and systems are unwilling to tolerate maintenance outages. |
One often overlooked point here is that when queue managers shut down, applications also bear some responsibility for their own recovery. No amount of redundancy can compensate in every single case for an application with poor recovery logic. If it is important to not lose access to messages, then applications that detect a quiescing queue manager can take the time to clean up, consuming any critical messages and resolving any outstanding affinities before disconnecting, so that there aren't any marooned messages to worry about for however long the affected queue manager is down. That's what quiescing is for. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| PeterPotkay wrote: |
I think the only way you are going to come close to being able to say you will "always" have access to that specific message on the specific queue, even if I have to take a queue manager down for patching, is if you are using Queue Sharing Groups on z/OS.
Notice I put "always" in quotes. Never say never. I don't have first hand experience with Queue Sharing Groups, but I imagine once every blue moon the MVS guys may need to do some kind of maintenance on the Coupling Facility or some other stuff deep down in the bowels of z/OS that may mean a brief outage to the coupling facility meaning a brief outage to the shared queue(s). Not sure though. |
A message in a CF structure is available to all qmgrs that are part of the same QSG. Big shops run multiple CFs in duplex in the highly unlikely situation where one of the CFs dies or needs to have its CFCC code upgraded.
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| gbaddeley |
| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 2538
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| bruce2359 wrote: |
| A message in a CF structure is available to all qmgrs that are part of the same QSG. Big shops run multiple CFs in duplex in the highly unlikely situation where one of the CFs dies or needs to have its CFCC code upgraded. |
Many big shops don't have z/OS, so CF is not a possible solution 
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Glenn |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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Ok. Really big shops. Or really, really big shops.
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I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:32 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| gbaddeley wrote: |
| bruce2359 wrote: |
| A message in a CF structure is available to all qmgrs that are part of the same QSG. Big shops run multiple CFs in duplex in the highly unlikely situation where one of the CFs dies or needs to have its CFCC code upgraded. |
Many big shops don't have z/OS, so CF is not a possible solution |
| RAN001 wrote: |
| We are processing orders across these systems and we are competing with the likes of Amazon |
They certainly aspire to be a big shop.
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| gbaddeley |
| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 2538
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| bruce2359 wrote: |
| Ok. Really big shops. Or really, really big shops. |
We are a really big shop, >100K employees, >2000 stores, >10^9 messages per day. No z/OS in sight. We do have a lot of AIX & PowerHA though.
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Glenn |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:05 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| gbaddeley wrote: |
| bruce2359 wrote: |
| Ok. Really big shops. Or really, really big shops. |
We are a really big shop, >100K employees, >2000 stores, >10^9 messages per day. No z/OS in sight. We do have a lot of AIX & PowerHA though. |
Heretic! Burn him! Burn him!
Point taken.
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:17 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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| Vitor wrote: |
| gbaddeley wrote: |
| bruce2359 wrote: |
| Ok. Really big shops. Or really, really big shops. |
We are a really big shop, >100K employees, >2000 stores, >10^9 messages per day. No z/OS in sight. We do have a lot of AIX & PowerHA though. |
Heretic! Burn him! Burn him!
Point taken. |
Lots of MQ Appliances in HA mode + DR?
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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The MQ Appliance is kinda sexy.
Wouldn't settle down with it and raise a family you understand, but a lot of useful use cases.
Of course, I can't get hardware into our data centers without so many forms you submit them as a 3 volume set bound in leather so I'm sticking with the software.
Until my management changes 
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:42 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| Vitor wrote: |
| Until my management changes |
I should never have taught you about etherkillers.
At least it's a much trickier problem in these modern days of wifi...
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