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| vinodsasidharan |
 Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 5:31 pm Post subject: system group or system groups if so how to implement |
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Apprentice
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Norwich
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Admin guide says "one system group / domain" .But other pdfs says domain is a set of system groups . i feel this is right .But what i am, trying to do or my requirement is .
i need 3 system groups / domain . how do i make installation or configuration to achieve this ?????????
See making different configuration also say we made another system group but what is that which makes them come under a domain .because the databases are individual / system group.
domain definition says mq workflow models are doamain level .
means all the workflow models is same in all system group . but how is it if databases are different . how sharing the workflow models takes place as per doamin definition.
if u see a buildtime u can have only 1 system group .
so what i tried is may be wrong approach.made 2 fdls which has same doamin name and in 1st fdl -> made system group as sysgroup1 and second as sysgroup2 and tried to import into buildtime hoping that i can see 2 system groups in the same buildtime .but importing gave error saying cannot import .
But my actual question is -->
Say my client wants 3 system groups / domain . how do i make installation or configuration to achieve this practically ??
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Vinod sasidharan
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| vennela |
| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 4055
Location: Hyderabad, India
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Vinod:
You CANNOT have multiple system groups in MQWF. You can have multiple systems but not groups. The manuals are a bit misleading in this regard. Nowhere they mention that we can have multiple groups but some how for the new users the general impression is that we can configure muliple gropus.
You cannot have multiple groups but you can have multiple systems.
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Venny |
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| jmac |
| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 27 Jun 2001
Posts: 3081
Location: EmeriCon, LLC
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Venny/Vinod:
The parent product (FlowMark) supported multiple databases within the Domain. It is my opinion that MQWF was designed to allow for the same, but this has never been implemented, and at this point I doubt that it ever will be implemented. I agree that the doc is misleading, what is even more misleading is the "Production Workflow" book, which on the surface appears to be MQWF, but in reality it is just the inventors (who are also the authors) view of what they think a workflow engine should look like.
For the most part if you look in MQWF at the buildtime objects you can get a good feel for what MQWF is doing. The exception is with the Network objects, since there are several settings for the various objects that are not implemented. For instance, the concept of "Home System" for users, this is also an item which is not implemented. Another one that comes to mind is the "Suspend Check Inteval" which is displayed by fmcautil, there is no such thing, i.e it was never implemented, in this case Buildtime was changed in that we can not specify this value, but it is still exposed by fmcautil. Unfortunately there are several of these little "gotchas".
Vinod: Bottom line, you want 3 system groups, you need 3 domains.
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John McDonald
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| vinodsasidharan |
| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:04 pm Post subject: reply to system groups funda |
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Apprentice
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Norwich
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Dear Veny & john,
Thanks for reply . But again if domain can have only 1 system group then why we need a domain at all . What i mean to say is system group can replace domain . As both seem to be at the highest level if domain have only 1 system group.
Any way if some body asks me to define A domain .What will i reply .
since as u see in pdf of concepts and architecture in the 3.2.1 pdf
Glossary:
"domain. A set of MQ Workflow system groups
which have the same meta-model, share the
same staff information, and topology
information. Communication between the
components in the domain is via message
queuing."
This is what which is confusing as domain definition is wrong .
So can any of you frame a proper definition of a Domain as this is the first question a client asks us when we speak of domain.
So define Domain.?????
_________________
Vinod sasidharan
Ibm Certfied MQ Admin 5.3
Ibm Certfied MQ Admin 6.0
Ibm Certfied WAS Admin 6.0
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Ibm Certfied Db2 Specialist.
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| jmac |
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2003 5:28 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 27 Jun 2001
Posts: 3081
Location: EmeriCon, LLC
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Vinod:
From a practical point of view you are correct. Essentially Domain == System Group.
So why do we need domain? Because the developers put it there, with the thought that some day it would be possible to have multiple system groups within the domain. It's just that the day has not yet arrived, and in my opinion it never will.
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John McDonald
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| sshaker |
| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 185
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| Quote: |
Bottom line, you want 3 system groups, you need 3 domains.
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hi john
when u told this long back.. do u mean to say that i can have 3 domains on one system!!
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shaker |
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| jmac |
| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 27 Jun 2001
Posts: 3081
Location: EmeriCon, LLC
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| sshaker wrote: |
when u told this long back.. do u mean to say that i can have 3 domains on one system!! |
If by System you mean one box running the same OS the answer is yes. I have not done this recently but have in the past. I see no reason why it should still not work
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John McDonald
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| sshaker |
| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:04 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 185
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then there is answer for most of our queries..
we can have multiple domains (in turn multiple system groups.. and datgabases) when we have such requirement.. anybody tried such scenario.. i remember trying similar stuff on my laptop but i dont remember the experiences.. i dont think we can change the domain name from DOMAIN to something else in buildtime.. i think it is fixed.. though it allows in WBI workbench..
any experiences .. thoughts on this?
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shaker |
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| jmac |
| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:10 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 27 Jun 2001
Posts: 3081
Location: EmeriCon, LLC
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Shaker:
You must understand that these databases can not talk to each other directly. For Instance I have FMCDB and FMCDB1, if I have an instance running on FMCDB and I want to create and start an instance on FMCDB1 I would need to use the XML interface, the MQWF API would be of no help. Not that this is difficult, I just want to make it clear.
GOOD LUCK
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John McDonald
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| sshaker |
| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:15 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 185
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i got what ur telling.. but it will be useful to have different environments which need not talk to other databases.. to be more clear..
if i want a test environment.. i will have with fmcgrpT, fmcsysT and fmcdbT and on the same physical machine.. i will create a dev env with fmcgrpD, fmcsysD and fmcdbD (database)..
but can i atleast have these.. under diff domain names.. will it allow to have domain names like domainT and domainD for this purpose..
ur thoughts and ideas are appreciated on this..
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shaker |
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| jmac |
| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 27 Jun 2001
Posts: 3081
Location: EmeriCon, LLC
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Shaker:
It is my opinion, that since they are in separate databases, the Domain name is not an issue. It is the Database name that's important. IE you have 2 domains called DOMAIN, but the configuration of the one for FMC points to FMCDB and the configuration for FMC1 points to FMCDB1.
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John McDonald
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| sshaker |
| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 185
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thnx john,
so the bottom line is i can have multiple system groups as long as i maintain separate database for each system group.. !?
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shaker |
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| jmac |
| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 27 Jun 2001
Posts: 3081
Location: EmeriCon, LLC
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Yes that's it. You have multiple Domains each one named DOMAIN, you have one System Group per Domain that has its own database.
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John McDonald
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| Ratan |
| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 1245
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so the bottom line is i can have multiple system groups as long as i maintain separate database for each system group.. !?
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This statement is again misleading. You cannot have multiple System groups (per domain). You can have as many groups as you want on one Physical machine if that is what you need. But these groups will not share anything.
I am assuming you are under the impression that you open a buildtime and can see 2 domains with 1 group each. that is not possible.
Also from a different angle, it is complex to maintain multiple QMs on one box.
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-Ratan |
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| sshaker |
| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 185
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hi ratan
i am talking about two distinct environments.. as mentioned with an example.. a test environment and a development environment with two diff databases.. and two diff qmgrs.. with no overlap!!
regards
shaker
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shaker |
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