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| broker_new |
 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:29 am Post subject: WMBv9.0.0.0-> Rumors that it would be on top of WAS |
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Yatiri
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 614
Location: Washington DC
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Hey Guys,
There were some rumors that next version of message broker 9.0.0.0 would be on top of WAS which would replace the WESB...is it true? 
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| If it's not an official announcement, it's either not true or it's IBM confidential information. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| mqjeff wrote: |
| If it's not an official announcement, it's either not true or it's IBM confidential information. |
My 2 cents:
- Given that we're only just into v8, thinking about v9 is a bit premature. By the time it comes out, it could be entirely cloud based like all other software in the world...
- It would be a odd departure for a product which for a decade has been written in C and ported from platform to platform to suddenly become a Java application under WAS
- WMB could replace WESB. WMB could be built directly into WMQ. WESB & WMB could replaced by a dongle based version of DataPower.
- If anything's going to be on top of WAS, it's more likely to be WESB and thus WESB would replace WMB.
- If the IBM integration engine is going to be built on top of WAS and hence strongly Java oriented, I can only pray whatever it is comes out sufficiently close to when I retire to prevent me having to change careers & get a proper job or (gulp) learn Java.
I am not now nor have I ever been a member of the IBM development team, the IBM architecture team or in any other way associated with any part of the IBM planning machine. Any thoughts expressed are entirely my own, no warranty express or implied is accepted, no liability is accepted for any loss or damage resulting from reading the above, my dog enjoys rolling in the mud, I'm cursed with a bird that can snap wooden dowels with his beak and the value of investments can go up as well as down. Any speculation on the future direction is futile as the world will end in December unless the guy who carved Mayan calendars just decided he didn't need to do another circle because he wanted to quit for the day & a calendar that lasted 5000 years would be long enough.
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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| Vitor wrote: |
- Given that we're only just into v8, thinking about v9 is a bit premature. By the time it comes out, it could be entirely cloud based like all other software in the world...
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no no, thrice no. My thoughts on 'cloud' are <redacted>.
| Vitor wrote: |
- If the IBM integration engine is going to be built on top of WAS and hence strongly Java oriented, I can only pray whatever it is comes out sufficiently close to when I retire to prevent me having to change careers & get a proper job or (gulp) learn Java.
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spot on Vitor.(or even .Net, PHP or some other new fangled thingy)
Bring back Cobol on Punched Cards !!!!
(I get my bus pass in a little under 11 months so I'm well and truly in the
 club}
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| smdavies99 wrote: |
| Vitor wrote: |
- Given that we're only just into v8, thinking about v9 is a bit premature. By the time it comes out, it could be entirely cloud based like all other software in the world...
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no no, thrice no. My thoughts on 'cloud' are <redacted>. |
Especially when it's pushed forward as the "simple, cost effective" solution & when the project starts up the solution direction blithely comes out with "of course, we didn't bother with any of the security stuff during the proof of concept. You'll need to tweak it a bit in the implementation".
So you just need to "tweak" a cloud based financial transaction to get past the auditors & regulators eh? 
| smdavies99 wrote: |
| Vitor wrote: |
- If the IBM integration engine is going to be built on top of WAS and hence strongly Java oriented, I can only pray whatever it is comes out sufficiently close to when I retire to prevent me having to change careers & get a proper job or (gulp) learn Java.
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spot on Vitor.(or even .Net, PHP or some other new fangled thingy)
Bring back Cobol on Punched Cards !!!! |
 Source code management, old school,
| smdavies99 wrote: |
(I get my bus pass in a little under 11 months so I'm well and truly in the
club} |
Yes, well no bus passes here. Precious few buses as it happens.
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| zpat |
| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:05 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
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Hmm, I am reminded of this quote
On hearing, one June afternoon in 1860, the suggestion that mankind was descended from the apes, the wife of the Bishop of Worcester is said to have exclaimed, ‘My dear, descended from the apes! Let us hope it is not true, but if it is, let us pray that it will not become generally known.’ |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| Vitor wrote: |
| - If the IBM integration engine is going to be built on top of WAS and hence strongly Java oriented, I can only pray whatever it is comes out sufficiently close to when I retire to prevent me having to change careers & get a proper job or (gulp) learn Java. |
I have a question for you to consider.
What is the difference between a Message Broker Execution Group being started up by a C++ runtime engine that loads a JVM internally, and a Message Broker Execution Group being started up by a JVM that loads a C++ runtime internally?
I mean, does it matter if it's the left hand clapping or the right hand clapping, if there's still only one of them? |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| mqjeff wrote: |
| What is the difference between a Message Broker Execution Group being started up by a C++ runtime engine that loads a JVM internally, and a Message Broker Execution Group being started up by a JVM that loads a C++ runtime internally? |
I can ignore the JVM started by a C++ runtime engine & pretend it's not there.
| mqjeff wrote: |
| I mean, does it matter if it's the left hand clapping or the right hand clapping, if there's still only one of them? |
It matters in the same way a mouse running along the crawlspace is different to a mouse running along the wall of the room. It's the same mouse but one instance is logically invisible, the other causes screaming, high speed cats, much frantic and random barking and a requirement to contain bodily functions until my wife decides it's safe to remove the barricade on the bathroom door and come out (typically 60 - 90 minutes).
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:50 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| Vitor wrote: |
| mqjeff wrote: |
| What is the difference between a Message Broker Execution Group being started up by a C++ runtime engine that loads a JVM internally, and a Message Broker Execution Group being started up by a JVM that loads a C++ runtime internally? |
I can ignore the JVM started by a C++ runtime engine & pretend it's not there. |
It's still an EG.
It still responds to the ConfigMgrProxy/Administrative/Message Broker API, and is still visible in Broker Explorer and still responds as any other EG, and still responds to mqsi commands.
So which side of the wall is it on?
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| mqjeff wrote: |
| So which side of the wall is it on? |
The side where I'm not screaming like a girl so hard I grow pigtails. 
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:11 am Post subject: Re: WMBv9.0.0.0-> Rumors that it would be on top of WAS |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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| broker_new wrote: |
| on top of WAS which would replace the WESB...is it true? |
WESB is not WMB. WESB is an Enterprise Service Bus that implements JSR 168 portlets. The two products are positioned in different spaces. WMB is positioned as an "advanced" ESB because of its unique way it transforms messages.
| broker_new wrote: |
| There were some rumors |
Did you mean to say that your "friend" has a problem and needs advice? Or, are you the "friend"? Who starts such rumors?
JSR 168 portlets are a very different animal with different intentions than WMB. WESB competes with other JSR 168 product offerings, such as the Intel Enterprise Service Gateway.
| Quote: |
| IBM offers three ESB products: IBM WebSphere ESB, IBM WebSphere Message Broker, IBM WebSphere DataPower Integration Appliance XI50. Selecting an ESB to power your SOA depends upon your requirements. WebSphere ESB is a platform-based ESB and optimized with WebSphere Application server for an integrated SOA platform. WebSphere Message Broker is a platform-independent based ESB and is built for universal connectivity and transformation in heterogeneous IT environments. WebSphere DataPower Integration Appliance XI50 is an appliance-based ESB and is built for simplified deployment and hardened security. Customers face a wide range of ESB requirements from the simple to the complex. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:30 am Post subject: Re: WMBv9.0.0.0-> Rumors that it would be on top of WAS |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| Who starts such rumors? |
To be fair to the OP, variations on this theme were all over IMPACT earlier this year. With timescales from WMBv10 to Xmas 2012...
So were similarly sourced (and timescaled) rumors that the new Pure line was going to replace AIX.
I stand by all my comments above. Especially timing. We have 5 years of WMBv8 at least (which might be just long enough to convince my current site to migrate!) and another 3 years until v9 is announced (I am not now etc, etc - it's a guess...). Why worry? Especially when:
- you still can't migrate message maps directly from v7 to v8
- people are still posting about v6.0
- As the weather gets colder, more and more mice are coming into my house from the fields
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:38 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 22 Mar 2010
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Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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Good points Vitor.
My message was directed at "broker_new" who seems to be an IBM employee "IBM ->On Demand Business" that may have heard in the hall as she was passing an office of this rumor.
Its implausible that WMB would ever implement JSR 168 portlets exclusively, although I could see WMB having a JSR 168 portlet node. Someone who would start this rumor, or pass it along, fails to understand the differences between WESB and WMB.
It would also take more than a few years to re-write all the C code in WMB to Java, and this effort would provide no additional business value or revenue, so why would any business do it?
The OP is mis-informed both about the rumor and her knowledge of WMB or WESB as a product. Training wouldn't help here, so sorry to admit that !
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| broker_new |
| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 614
Location: Washington DC
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Excellent..Thanks for your brief explanation.
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 25 Jun 2008
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JSR168 is strictly the defintion of Portlets.
Portlets are strictly implemented by WebSphere Portal Server, and not by WESB as far as I know.
WESB is a lightweight integration framework that does not consume or expose Portlets, as far as I know.
Portlets hosted in Portal Server can certainly consume integrations written in WESB, but that doesn't mean WESB uses JSR 168.
 
Again, though, if it's not in a product announcement or in product documentation then it's either not true or IBM confidential. And shouldn't be discussed here in either case. |
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