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| solomon_13000 |
 Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:26 am Post subject: Designation |
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Master
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 284
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Below are a list of designation:
1. Administration and Support
2. Programmer
3. Solution designer
From MQ point of view, how are they related?. Can a person trained for MQ administration and support be called a programmer?. What about a solution designer?. Is defining channels, defining QMA and so on called a programming language or simply a command?. What about C++, Visual Basic, Cobol and so on?.
Regards. |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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My take?
1. An Admin does not need to know programming, but needs to know best programming practice with regard to WMQ. A developer (programmer) that has converted to an Admin is a formidable entity as they are able to talk to developers on an even level, and educate them.
2. A developer needs to know nothing about Admin (in a lot of cases they seem to know nothing about WMQ  )
3. See 1. above - a solution design begins and ends with an application!
OK, trench dug, tin hat on, waiting for the incoming 
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| solomon_13000 |
| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 284
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| So is MQ as in defining channel - DEFINE CHANNEL(<channelname>) known as a programming language?. |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:58 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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No, it's an administrative activity - even if you pipe it in.
A programming language (in WMQ terms) is one that the manual states as being supported. I couldn't code if my life depended on it, hence I'm not in the formidable bracket, but I know what not to do with the product.
Remember, the above comments are my views and may not represent the views of the wider WMQ community.
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| solomon_13000 |
| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:05 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 284
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| But when we speak about ESQL, this can be called a programming language?. From my understand SQL stands for structured query language. |
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| manicminer |
| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 177
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I would say that there is a lot of overlap between 1, 2 & 3. To design effective solutions you need to understand about what MQ is capable of. And to write effective programs you also need to understand a bit about the messaging architecture to make best use of it.
There is also a serious overlap once you start using PCF messaging, where you need to understand both how to admin the MQ server, and how to write correct messaging programs  |
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| solomon_13000 |
| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 284
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| Even with the use of ESQL, does it have a full scale potential to do what a programming language such as C, C++, Java, and so on is capable?. This is because even after information goes through a broker and so on, yet once the information arrives at the destination a post processing is being invoked. |
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| bower5932 |
| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 27 Aug 2001
Posts: 3023
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
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| solomon_13000 wrote: |
| But when we speak about ESQL, this can be called a programming language?. |
ESQL can definitely be described as a programming language. It would be the programming language used by the broker. |
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| harish_td |
| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 236
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Middleware is a paradigm that involves the most complex of solution design. Thus in my opinion it is an inverted tree. The top of which is the Solution Design.
All programming practices and administration thereof arise from this Solution and its design.
ESQL/Java is a programmatic approach to a solution design.
This does not mean that a middleware can take all of the business logic required.
Please understand that each programming language has its strength and weaknesses [In other words there is no ONE SIZE FITS ALL]
There will always be other Services/Interfaces/Applications that will call and process information in conjunction with middleware.
Just My two cents. |
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| solomon_13000 |
| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:30 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 284
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But how extensive is ESQL being used in brokers?. Suppose there are message flows being defined for the brokers over several years, now does this mean that the level in which the business logic to be changed will be at a minimum level?. Also from my understanding ESQL is a language used in DB2. Is it better for someone who knows how to program in DB2 and Java to write message flows or in other words deal with brokers?.
| Quote: |
| This does not mean that a middleware can take all of the business logic required. |
So from a statistical point of view, only 10% of the total work can be handled by the middleware. 90% of the work has to be handled at the application development level?. Also since a person who falls under the statistical figure of 90% will be doing alot of complex thinking, the 10% can only support as the 10% can only point out this and that, but can't actually do what the people who fall under the 90% can do. In other words it's purely guessing and keep supporting.
| Quote: |
| There will always be other Services/Interfaces/Applications that will call and process information in conjunction with middleware. |
This would mean that the pre-processing and post-processing work will be handled by the C++, Java...programmers?. If true, therefore it means that the scope of work that can be handled by the middleware is limited as stated above, statistically it can handle 10% of the total work. The 90% of the work need to be handled by the core development team that writes application or interface in C++, Java and so on.
From this point of view can we say that the task to be handled is purely administration and support rather than development?. Because a real developer falls under the statistical figure of 90% rather than 10%. |
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| sami.stormrage |
| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 186
Location: Bangalore/Singapore
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1) Administration & Support: MQ 994 certifacation will tell you what all has to be done by an admin.
2) Programming: (Don't know if there is a certification for playing with the) 13 API's that MQ provides for application development.
3)Solution Design: (MQ 996 Certification will answer your queries.
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*forgetting everything  * |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9472
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| Quote: |
1. Administration and Support
2. Programmer
3. Solution designer |
These activities overlap; they do not exist in isolation, except perhaps as a job title on your business cards.
1. Implies understanding the platform that MQ operates on in order to do problem determination, performance tuning, apply maintenance. Most time spent doing day-to-day (operational), repetitive tasks (defining queues and channels, responding to first-level calls about perceived problems with qmgrs and/or applications, working with network or security staff.
2. Imples understanding the programming language that the business application will be written in, and the externals (SQL, the MQ API, XML, etc.); understanding of the platform sufficient to issue compile commands, execute programs for testing, and use the tools for debugging; understanding of subject of the program: accounting, if the application is financial, for example. Usually more time spent writing application code.
3. Used to be called Systems Analyst. Implies substantial understanding of the platform (although not at the bit-twiddling level); a substantial understanding of business processes; substantial understanding of languages, databases, externals; usually a position to which programmers aspire. Usually more time spent with end-users gathering application specifications, addressing higher-level strategic corporate objectives, helping to set "best practice" policies, leading application programmers and project teams, providing liaisson across traditional IT- and corporate-boundaries.
In large companies or large IT shops, job boundaries may be more defined with less overlap. In smaller shops, there will likely be much more overlap.
When I'm reviewing resumes and interviewing job applicants, I will look for a blend of all three.
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I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| solomon_13000 |
| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 284
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| Quote: |
| Implies understanding the platform that MQ operates |
Which would mean product knowledge?.
| Quote: |
| Imples understanding the programming language |
This means development?
| Quote: |
| Implies substantial understanding of the platform |
This means all that is covered in the system development life cycle?.
From all the above quote, which should be the best thing to learn first?. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9472
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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By platform(s) I mean the operating system (Windows, UNIX, z/OS). A system admin must use the o/s tools to install and maintain the product. Much of WMQ system admin is platform (o/s) neutral (like MQSC commands and object attributes), some is platform-specific (like ISPF admin panels on z/OS WMQ). System Administration is most often an operational activity; which means that system admins do work that solves immediate goals (like keep the system up and running).
By application development I mean writing program logic in C, COBOL, Java, whatever. Application programmers usually take direction from Systems Analysts (Solution Designers). Application programming is most often a tactical activity; that means that programmers do work that solves short-term goals, like creating a new program that an end-user needs to do his/her job.
By Systems Analyst (Solution Designer), I mean viewing the big-picture: understanding the long-term business goals of the organization, the resources available, and how those resources should best be applied to meet the goals. System Analysis is most often strategic activity, like researching what competitive businesses are doing, what customers might want in the future, and then designing new business processes to meet these future goals.
The best place to start is where you are now.
If you are a Windows o/s geek, you will might achieve most success working to become an MQ system administrator. IBM offers hands-on courses in WMQ system administration on all platforms.
Once you have established proficiency (expertise) with MQ system admin, you will likely be able to assist both programmers and designers better understand MQ, and perform problem determination and resolution of issues with MQ operation. To be most effective as a sysadmin, you should understand what programmers do, how they do it, and what can go wrong when it is not done correctly.
If you are an application programming geek, you will achieve most success by mastering WMQ API usage using the programming language you are most familiar with, and that your organizational policy dictates that you use. To be most effective as an application programmer, you should understand what sysadmins do, how they do it, and what can go wrong when it is not done correctly. IBM offers hands-on WMQ application programming using the base API calls, using Java, and using JMS. To bring real value to your organization, you should understand what your business does for a living: accounting and finance, engineering, bill-of-material, whatever. It's difficult to write an accounts payable program if you don't know what accounts payable is.
To be a systems analyst, you should become proficient with business processes, such that you can write programs, and direct others (programmers) to write them. You should also be familiar with WMQ system administration. You should beccome proficient at doing needs analysis, writing business plans, writing cost-benefit analyses, working with end-users, leading projects, and more.
The usual progression is from sysadmin (computer operator) to programmer to solution designer (systems analyst). I'd suggest finding a mentor. Make friends at your job. Find someone that you respect, someone with skills (technical and interpersonal) that you admire, and discuss your goals and ambitions.
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| solomon_13000 |
| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 284
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| Quote: |
| IBM offers hands-on courses in WMQ system administration on all platforms. |
This means it's a seperate course?. 1. Linux, 2. Win, 3. Unix?. 3 different classes?. Also is a person who writes message flow for brokers using ESQL known as an application programmer?. |
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