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| SAFraser |
 Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Shaman
Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 742
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
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I can literally picture that CD in my old cubicle at a former job.... I always needed the CD for Windows MQ 5.1 but those CDs were always disappearing. I clearly remember sorting through my installation media, disgusted many times by the multiple copies of Solaris media when what I needed was Windows.
I wish I had just one for you now.
You clearly have the patience and disposition of a saint. Please keep posting, you are a nice addition to the forum.
Shirley |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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Also, it's probably not legal to provide this software to Gary H if you purchased it from IBM for your use.
So don't post the results of any illegal transactions here.
Also, Gary H. The business process that's running on such horrendously outdated code is probably also horrendously outdated. My personal approach in this situation would be to try and sell the client on a redevelopment effort - to go through another requirements cycle, another design cycle, another implementation cycle... the whole works.
And I bet you can probably justify that to the client by cataloguing all of the current users "annoyances" lists. Just find out what the users don't like, and feed that back to management.
_________________
I am *not* the model of the modern major general. |
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| SAFraser |
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Shaman
Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 742
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
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You don't actually know that I would send the CD without checking with my IBM rep first, now do you? So please don't suggest I would do anything illegal.
My post to Gary was intended to be light-hearted and supportive.
I've been posting to this forum for a long time with honesty and integrity. I don't think I deserved your comment. |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:44 am Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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I don't know what you would or wouldn't do, I agree.
I'm not suggesting that anyone WOULD do anything illegal.
I'm asking them to make sure that, if they DO, that they don't POST about it here.
And my comment wasn't directed at YOU, specifically.  I think I would have used 'SAfraser', in that case.
And you certainly don't deserve a comment like that directed at you.
_________________
I am *not* the model of the modern major general. |
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| SAFraser |
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Shaman
Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 742
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
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Thank you, Sweetie Pie Grand Poobah. I was all upset. Now I'm not.
You know, this can be a nerve-wracking forum on which to post.  |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| SAFraser wrote: |
You know, this can be a nerve-wracking forum on which to post. |
I'm constantly nervous. Afraid of saying something stupid or just patently wrong.
Actually, that's not just online... 
Touching back on a previously point from the Grand Poobah, what are the odds on doing proper redevelopment? I've got a lot of experience where I encountered resistance to change and had to fight to change the old, but these people seem to be taking it to extremes! Another potential line of attack which has worked for me in the past is to ask what the business justification is for staying on such an old, unsupported platform. If the answer is something along the lines of "we don't want to take the risk of business interuption", point out (in as much graphic detail as you can) the risks they're running now!
You can finish by pointing out all the new features and associated benefits (and medium term savings) that the new software will bring the business. Shouldn't be a dry eye in the house at the end! 
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| Gary H |
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:46 am Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 18
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Hi,
first of all, thanks again for all the responses.
The last thing I want any one to do is anything illegal or immoral, so apologies if my request was inappropriate.
| jefflowrey wrote: |
Also, Gary H. The business process that's running on such horrendously outdated code is probably also horrendously outdated. My personal approach in this situation would be to try and sell the client on a redevelopment effort - to go through another requirements cycle, another design cycle, another implementation cycle... the whole works.
And I bet you can probably justify that to the client by cataloguing all of the current users "annoyances" lists. Just find out what the users don't like, and feed that back to management. |
I'm actually in hysterics laughing at this. Not at you for suggesting it, as it is a perfectly reasonable and extremely sensible idea, that any one with any common sense would do.
However, in this case, it's just not an option. MQ is just one outdated software component on one part of a high profile multi-platform business critical infrastructure that supports an archaic home grown customer application. We're currently looking at getting them to redevelop the whole application on a new environment for projected implementation two years from now, but I've as much chance as teaching quantum physics to a rose bush as getting them to do more than what they're currently doing.
It took a year to get them to agree to go to MQ 5.2, and only because they're experiencing the memory leeks that are inherant in 5.1.7 due to increased usage.  |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:01 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| Gary H wrote: |
| I've as much chance as teaching quantum physics to a rose bush as getting them to do more than what they're currently doing. |
Really? I know a Hybrid Tea "Fragrant Cloud" that's doing a PhD in quantum mechanics at Cambridge...
(You know, I'm certain they've filled the decaff hopper on that drinks machine with real coffee. )
Seriously though:
| Gary H wrote: |
It took a year to get them to agree to go to MQ 5.2, and only because they're experiencing the memory leeks that are inherant in 5.1.7 due to increased usage. |
These people are grudingly upgrading to a newer but still unsupported level because they can actually see the environment start to fail? And are talking about redevelopment? That's crazy, in a "sitting on the Titanic after the iceberg wondering if swimming lessons would be a good idea" sort of way. 
Just when I thought I'd seen management do it all. However it works out, I wish you good fortune. 
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| Gary H |
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 18
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| Vitor wrote: |
These people are grudingly upgrading to a newer but still unsupported level because they can actually see the environment start to fail? And are talking about redevelopment? That's crazy, in a "sitting on the Titanic after the iceberg wondering if swimming lessons would be a good idea" sort of way.
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It's more that they're on the Titanic after the iceberg has hit and still speculating if the water crashing in has anything to do with them being wet.
| Vitor wrote: |
Just when I thought I'd seen management do it all. However it works out, I wish you good fortune. |
Cheers, mate. |
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| kevinf2349 |
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1311
Location: USA
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| Quote: |
| MQ is just one outdated software component on one part of a high profile multi-platform business critical |
Oh my, they don't think their business is worth saving? Interesting. What company is this so I can make sure I don't do any business with them? 
I don't understand businesses like this. They think 'their' business is so important that it isn't worth the downtime to make sure it says around for the foreseeable future? I wonder if the share holders share that view point. If the downtown is an issue then what good would having the old CD do anyway? If it is down enough for you to need it, upgrade it
Imagine all the RAS benefits that are being ignored too.
If I were you I would jump off the Titanic
btw...I looked through my 'stash' of CD's and .... no luck...sorry. |
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| Gary H |
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:52 am Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 18
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| kevinf2349 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| MQ is just one outdated software component on one part of a high profile multi-platform business critical |
Oh my, they don't think their business is worth saving? Interesting. What company is this so I can make sure I don't do any business with them?
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I'll never tell, but there are parts of the infrastructure that MacGyver could have built better with sellotape and some paper clips. I love my job.
| kevinf2349 wrote: |
| btw...I looked through my 'stash' of CD's and .... no luck...sorry. |
Thanks. Appreciate it. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:59 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| kevinf2349 wrote: |
I don't understand businesses like this. They think 'their' business is so important that it isn't worth the downtime to make sure it says around for the foreseeable future? |
It's weird. The process appears to be thus:
1- Having the system down for upgrade will cost the business x
2- Having the system down while it's fixed will cost the business y
3- The gain to the business from the upgrade is z
4- There's no evidence y>x
5- There's no evidence y will happen (with the phrase "until after I've gone" often muttered at the end)
6- z can't be quantified (except by technobabble about RAS & improved uptime)
7- It therefore could be x>z
8- I can gain kudos for not spending x
9- I can blame IT for any problem
10- We're not upgrading.
This is only my observation of course; I am not now nor have I ever been a qualifed manager (in the PHB sense!)
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence.
Last edited by Vitor on Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| kevinf2349 |
| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:11 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1311
Location: USA
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Vitor
Sadly I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head. |
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