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MQSeries.net Forum IndexGeneral IBM MQ SupportIBM MQ HA/multi-instance with glusterfs replicated storage

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Ganford
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:08 am Post subject: IBM MQ HA/multi-instance with glusterfs replicated storage Reply with quote

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Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 22

Hi guys,

Is there maybe someone who would like to share some tips and knowledge about the setup of MQ HA/multi-instance with glusterfs replicated storage?

I was testing it for a longer time and we have even implemented some solutions based on this setup. Initially it felt like a decent solution, but during the time it feels like absolute failure.

Most of the issues are related to failing lock-release on mq files.

I know that IBM lists this solution as not working, but maybe somebody was able to implement some workaround.

I will be glad for open discussion here )

Thanks,
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bruce2359
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:22 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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Where and why does IBM say that glusterfs is not working?
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Ganford
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:29 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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Joined: 09 Aug 2011
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bruce2359 wrote:
Where and why does IBM say that glusterfs is not working?


In this page:

https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/testing-statement-ibm-mq-multi-instance-queue-manager-file-systems

"
The following file systems are known not to work as they do not meet IBM MQ's technical requirements:
Gluster V3.x, V4.x, and V5.x, using the Gluster Native (FUSE) client
"
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exerk
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:34 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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Ganford wrote:
In this page:

https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/testing-statement-ibm-mq-multi-instance-queue-manager-file-systems

"
The following file systems are known not to work as they do not meet IBM MQ's technical requirements:
Gluster V3.x, V4.x, and V5.x, using the Gluster Native (FUSE) client
"

And are you using the native Gluster Native (FUSE) client?
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Ganford
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:02 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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Posts: 22

exerk wrote:
Ganford wrote:
In this page:

https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/testing-statement-ibm-mq-multi-instance-queue-manager-file-systems

"
The following file systems are known not to work as they do not meet IBM MQ's technical requirements:
Gluster V3.x, V4.x, and V5.x, using the Gluster Native (FUSE) client
"

And are you using the native Gluster Native (FUSE) client?


Yes, We are. I want to try different approach over NFS mount, but my first tyr has failed so I need repeat it again. Still I have worries that it will not lead anywhere, I have at least not found anywhere information about such setup to work.

Did you tried to use any application which requires lock-release by your self ? )

I ahve also found interesting topic here, which is related to DB:
https://serverfault.com/questions/171166/can-i-run-mysqld-on-top-of-glusterfs
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exerk
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:16 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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Ganford wrote:
exerk wrote:
And are you using the native Gluster Native (FUSE) client?


Yes, We are...

Then it's not going to work, and even if by some magical juju someone manages to do it's unlikely to be supported by IBM.

Ganford wrote:
...Did you tried to use any application which requires lock-release by your self ?...

Yes. Using a supported file system, one that was not using replication (how do you replicate file locks anyway?), and following the procedures for a supported MQ MI installation.

MQ is not a DB so what may work for a DB will not necessarily do so for MQ, and even if it does it may not be supported.
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Ganford
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:44 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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exerk wrote:
Ganford wrote:
exerk wrote:
And are you using the native Gluster Native (FUSE) client?


Yes, We are...

Then it's not going to work, and even if by some magical juju someone manages to do it's unlikely to be supported by IBM.

Ganford wrote:
...Did you tried to use any application which requires lock-release by your self ?...

Yes. Using a supported file system, one that was not using replication (how do you replicate file locks anyway?), and following the procedures for a supported MQ MI installation.

MQ is not a DB so what may work for a DB will not necessarily do so for MQ, and even if it does it may not be supported.


I understand you very well. I have also experience with Veritas, AIX HACM, RDQM, there is problem that nobody want to invest in such solutions.

I feel like to be stuck with impossible request to achieve high availability on corporate level with almost 0 resources.

To use MQ cluster is not option, because I will not get application development support for that.

There is also CEPH Storage, but it seem to contain bug and therefore is is also not suitable run IBM MQ.

So this is the reason why I keep trying to make it work with glusterfs
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exerk
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:51 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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Ganford wrote:
I understand you very well. I have also experience with Veritas, AIX HACM, RDQM, there is problem that nobody want to invest in such solutions...

As is usually the case: a Rolls-Royce solution wanted for the price of a Trabant...

Ganford wrote:
...I feel like to be stuck with impossible request to achieve high availability on corporate level with almost 0 resources...

Welcome to the world of many of us...

Ganford wrote:
...To use MQ cluster is not option, because I will not get application development support for that...

Presumably they want a 'service' but aren't prepared to do their bit to achieve it?

Ganford wrote:
...There is also CEPH Storage, but it seem to contain bug and therefore is is also not suitable run IBM MQ.

So this is the reason why I keep trying to make it work with glusterfs

My advice is to stop trying to make it work with an unsupported solution because when it all goes wrong the powers-that-be will forget they wouldn't give you the resources to deliver a supported solution, and will hang-draw-and-quarter you for providing an unsupported one.
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fjb_saper
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:40 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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exerk wrote:
Ganford wrote:
I understand you very well. I have also experience with Veritas, AIX HACM, RDQM, there is problem that nobody want to invest in such solutions...

As is usually the case: a Rolls-Royce solution wanted for the price of a Trabant...

You should at least downgrade that to a Wartburg...
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Vitor
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:10 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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Location: Texas, USA

exerk wrote:
Ganford wrote:
exerk wrote:
And are you using the native Gluster Native (FUSE) client?


Yes, We are...

Then it's not going to work, and even if by some magical juju someone manages to do it's unlikely to be supported by IBM.




It's like looking in the manual for your car, seeing "minimum 98 octane" and seeing if you can get it going on a combination of peanut oil & moonshine. You might get it started, but how long and how reliably is anyone's guess. But you certainly won't get it fixed under the warrenty.
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exerk
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:18 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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fjb_saper wrote:
exerk wrote:
Ganford wrote:
I understand you very well. I have also experience with Veritas, AIX HACM, RDQM, there is problem that nobody want to invest in such solutions...

As is usually the case: a Rolls-Royce solution wanted for the price of a Trabant...

You should at least downgrade that to a Wartburg...

They were more 'luxury' end of the market compared to a Trabbie
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys.

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Vitor
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:35 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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fjb_saper wrote:
exerk wrote:
Ganford wrote:
I understand you very well. I have also experience with Veritas, AIX HACM, RDQM, there is problem that nobody want to invest in such solutions...

As is usually the case: a Rolls-Royce solution wanted for the price of a Trabant...

You should at least downgrade that to a Wartburg...


I had a friend growing up who's family owned a Wartburg. I accept that it sounds highly improbable, as does the claim I had a friend growing up. It was a different time, I was a different person.......

But this penny pinching is an ongoing problem. As part of my duties, I was forced to deny an application team who'd decided not to pay for the enterprise standard software for a given solution (nothing MQ / IIB, another part of my brief) but had used magical juju to develop their own solution.

After much wrangling and a couple of games of "who's got the biggest stick", I was overruled. They pointed out that they'd been using it in QA for months without issues, they didn't have time or budget to figure out my solution architecture and they didn't care how many desks I chewed through. I took it well and my team was able to talk to me face to face only 2 days later.

On the designated Monday, I asked (as I routinely did) if they'd been any problems with the weekend implementations; both to see how many fires I needed to put out and to see if they'd had any problems going live I could gloat over. It had gone live 2am Saturday morning, crashed 5pm Saturday evening and they'd given up on it 4am Sunday morning because it wouldn't stay up for more than 30 minutes.

I laughed so hard I literally wet myself. I had to go home and change, and my team had to up their meds because my cackle had freaked them out.
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exerk
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:59 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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Vitor wrote:
...I laughed so hard I literally wet myself. I had to go home and change, and my team had to up their meds because my cackle had freaked them out.

Thankfully, I did not have to mop up after you...
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belchman
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:17 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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If your contact admin storage facility and your network is not bulletproof, I advise you to use RDQM instead of multi-instance.

We've had so many issues with multi-instance, we have to back them out and replace them. They work as designed but if your apps cannot tolerate them failing back and forth frequently, you are asking for pain.
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Ganford
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:01 am Post subject: Reply with quote

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Joined: 09 Aug 2011
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belchman wrote:
If your contact admin storage facility and your network is not bulletproof, I advise you to use RDQM instead of multi-instance.

We've had so many issues with multi-instance, we have to back them out and replace them. They work as designed but if your apps cannot tolerate them failing back and forth frequently, you are asking for pain.


I would love to do this, but there are higher license costs. I will fight little bit glusterFS setup over nfs. I still have some issue there.

Still, I did also another research on internet, and looks like that maybe only "free" alternative will be some kind of DRBD home made solution.
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