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MQSeries.net Forum IndexClusteringOverlapping Clusters

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MQMB&WAS
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:13 pm Post subject: Overlapping Clusters Reply with quote

Voyager

Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 89

Hello experts,
I was reading IBM docs on overlapping clusters (To create classes of service) and wanted to check if my understanding is correct.

Could this be a valid and advisable set up of clusters?

for 2 clusters, one for customer facing apps, and the other for batch/bulk msgs. Add every qmgr in the network to both the clusters with separate clusrcvr channels(don' think CLUSNL would provide any advantage?) and one xmitq per cluster.
And create queues only on the cluster that it needs to be(instead of using CLUSNL).

What advantages does this overlapped cluster setup provide when compared to building to separate clusters with no overlapping?

Thanks
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bruce2359
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 3:23 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Poobah

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 8502
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.

Why does this strike me as a cert test question?
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MQMB&WAS
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:25 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyager

Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 89

bruce2359 wrote:
Why does this strike me as a cert test question?


No idea Never took a test, I hope to take it at some point.

Does this setup work? or is there any flaw in it?
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exerk
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:16 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Council

Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6106

Please define exactly what you mean by overlapping clusters, i.e. like a Venn diagram, or layer-cake?
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MQMB&WAS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:20 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyager

Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 89

exerk wrote:
Please define exactly what you mean by overlapping clusters, i.e. like a Venn diagram, or layer-cake?


see pic
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exerk
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:41 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Council

Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6106

I would not describe that as overlapping as such, more layer-cake. Whilst you have PRs participating in two different clusters, those clusters are effectively discrete - there's no way to hop messages from one cluster to the other.

To me (personal opinion) overlapping clusters follow more of a Venn-diagram topology, one where you can hop messages between clusters.
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bruce2359
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:47 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Poobah

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 8502
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.

Other than posting here, what research have you done? For example, have you googled 'benefits of overlapping +mq clusters'?
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MQMB&WAS
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:59 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyager

Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 89

exerk wrote:
I would not describe that as overlapping as such, more layer-cake. Whilst you have PRs participating in two different clusters, those clusters are effectively discrete - there's no way to hop messages from one cluster to the other.

To me (personal opinion) overlapping clusters follow more of a Venn-diagram topology, one where you can hop messages between clusters.


What's the diff b/w layer-cake and venn. for me it just looks like a diff way of picturing the overlapped clusters?

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exerk
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:02 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Council

Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6106

Because the second diagram implies that messages can hop from one cluster to another, whereas the first diagram clearly shows a separation.

The difficulty, as always, is in the interpretation of the image, and semantics...
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gbaddeley
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Overlapping Clusters Reply with quote

Jedi

Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 2019
Location: Melbourne, Australia

MQMB&WAS wrote:
What advantages does this overlapped cluster setup provide when compared to building to separate clusters with no overlapping?
Thanks

Separate MQ clusters are normally used where logical containment is required. ie. In a qmgr network, you want some apps to use a set of clustered queues, and other apps to only use other clustered queues. Or, containment is required across a network DMZ boundary, or within an environmental boundary (eg. dev / test / qa), or there is a security / business authorization requirement.

It may simplify resource usage, configuration and support if clusters overlap. ie. They have common FRs, or some of the PRs are common.

If a PR qmgr is in multiple clusters there is also the ability to configure qalias objects to allow messages to hop from one cluster to another.

If you don't have any of these requirements, it is probably not a good idea to set up multiple clusters, when one will suffice.
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MQMB&WAS
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Overlapping Clusters Reply with quote

Voyager

Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 89

gbaddeley wrote:

Separate MQ clusters are normally used where logical containment is required. ie. In a qmgr network, you want some apps to use a set of clustered queues, and other apps to only use other clustered queues. Or, containment is required across a network DMZ boundary, or within an environmental boundary (eg. dev / test / qa), or there is a security / business authorization requirement.

It may simplify resource usage, configuration and support if clusters overlap. ie. They have common FRs, or some of the PRs are common.

If a PR qmgr is in multiple clusters there is also the ability to configure qalias objects to allow messages to hop from one cluster to another.

If you don't have any of these requirements, it is probably not a good idea to set up multiple clusters, when one will suffice.


Lets say, there's a need for 2 different clusters, 1 for large msgs and hte other for small/customer facing apps. And for future purposes, they need to be connected.
For this requirement, which of the below is better, performance/security/configuration whise ?
1) Build 2 clusters separately and create a qmgr and make it a member of both the clusters(I think this is called a gateway ) ?
2) Build 2 overlapping clusters by making all the qmgrs a PR in both the clusters?
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bruce2359
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:30 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Poobah

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 8502
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.

Two separate clusters, one for FINANCE and one for RESEARCH, need not overlap completely (share all objects), but may need to share some objects as the RESEARCH apps need to submit invoices be paid. One qmgr could be the point where the two clusters "intersect."
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gbaddeley
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:57 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi

Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 2019
Location: Melbourne, Australia

bruce2359 wrote:
One qmgr could be the point where the two clusters "intersect."

Or have 2 qmgrs at cluster intersection, with the same "cross over" objects, for improved availability. (We do that)
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Glenn
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MQMB&WAS
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:18 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyager

Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 89

bruce2359 wrote:
Two separate clusters, one for FINANCE and one for RESEARCH, need not overlap completely (share all objects), but may need to share some objects as the RESEARCH apps need to submit invoices be paid. One qmgr could be the point where the two clusters "intersect."


Is this intersecting qmgr called a "gateway qmgr" and is it created as described in this doc. https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSFKSJ_8.0.0/com.ibm.mq.con.doc/q017440_.htm ?
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bruce2359
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:19 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Poobah

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 8502
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.

gbaddeley wrote:
bruce2359 wrote:
One qmgr could be the point where the two clusters "intersect."

Or have 2 qmgrs at cluster intersection, with the same "cross over" objects, for improved availability. (We do that)


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