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| Partha.Baidya |
 Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:58 am Post subject: Max Message Size for http transport |
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Voyager
Joined: 05 Nov 2009
Posts: 97
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How much message size IIbv10 can handle over http transport?
I saw some previous post where WMB until version 9 can handle 100MB of data using http transport as WMBv9 using WMQ in its internal core.
Since IIBv9 is not using WMQ can it handle large volume of data?
What is the best practice for http transport in terms of message volume? |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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it's only the bipHTTPListener that uses MQ.
The EG level listener has never used MQ.
HTTP inside or outside of broker does not perform well for larger sized requests.
I don't know if IIB handles http streaming requests or not.
In general, if you're trying to send more than about 10mb over HTTP, you're doing something wrong.
But plenty of people do it.
The performance of your flow is also going to suffer in handling large messages as well.
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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Don't you mean IIB10 and not IIB9?
As for advice on using large messages over HTTP? Don't. Pure and simple. Don't.
The protocol was not designed for large messages.
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| Partha.Baidya |
| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 05 Nov 2009
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| smdavies99 wrote: |
Don't you mean IIB10 and not IIB9?
As for advice on using large messages over HTTP? Don't. Pure and simple. Don't.
The protocol was not designed for large messages. |
I mean to say IIB 10.
Can you please help me any documentation which suggest that we should not use large messages with http.
My Enterprise architect is asking for a proof and IIB implementation does not clearly mention about the size limit.
So facing hard time to make him understand. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| Partha.Baidya wrote: |
| Can you please help me any documentation which suggest that we should not use large messages with http. |
Ask Mr Google - I recommend "problems with large message size over http".
| Partha.Baidya wrote: |
| My Enterprise architect is asking for a proof and IIB implementation does not clearly mention about the size limit. |
Because this isn't an issue with IIB but an issue with HTTP, as my associates point out.
If you want one killer point about why it's a problem, ask your architect what he expects to happen if you're sending over a 100Mb of data over http and the network coughs.
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| Partha.Baidya |
| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Because this isn't an issue with IIB but an issue with HTTP, as my associates point out. |
If I take IIB/WMB, how much message size it should be able to process. As I understand message broker works best for small message size either through WMB or webservice.
But how much max message size we should allow to be processed? |
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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Answers:
1) How long is a piece of string?
2) It depends (upon you environment)
Once you understand the deficiencies on the HTTP Protocol then you will be able to make the decision for yourself because you know your environment, we don't.
Personally?
IMHO, the shorter the better. I've had issues on a closed network with messages < 10K bytes.
My guess is that some 'designer'/'architect' has decided that using simple http messages for transferring large amounts of data is a good thing and you are left to try to make it work.
There is a reason why many downloads you see on the internet also have things like md5sum values available. This allows you to verify if you have errors during the transmission and were not detected during the download.
If that is not a good enough reason to NOT to use HTTP for anything vital then to be honest, I don't know what is.
_________________
WMQ User since 1999
MQSI/WBI/WMB/'Thingy' User since 2002
Linux user since 1995
Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:41 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
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Location: Texas, USA
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| smdavies99 wrote: |
| Once you understand the deficiencies on the HTTP Protocol then you will be able to make the decision for yourself because you know your environment, we don't. |
| smdavies99 wrote: |
| My guess is that some 'designer'/'architect' has decided that using simple http messages for transferring large amounts of data is a good thing and you are left to try to make it work. |
I repeat my comments above about what this person expects to happen when the transmission fails.
| Partha.Baidya wrote: |
| As I understand message broker works best for small message size either through WMB or webservice |
Your understanding is incorrect. WMB/IIB works fine for large message sizes (clearly with larger message sizes poor parsing and coding choices can impact performance, but that's nothing to do with the product). The problem here is the transport protocol. If your requirement was to move 100Mb of data in a file or over MQ, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
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Sorry, I didn't mean "I don't know if IIB handles http streaming requests or not."
I meant "chunked requests".
Edit: It looks like at least the HTTPInput nodes do support chunked requests. The chunks will be assembled and the entire message presented to the message flow.
This still means you are dealing with some kind of very large amount of data in your message flow.
The Request node doesn't directly support chunked requests - it won't build them for you. In theory, if you did a propagate, you could do this yourself. But it might not work anyway.
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| mgk |
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003
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| Quote: |
| The Request node doesn't directly support chunked requests |
This is correct for outbound requests - but it does support chunked responses to requests made...
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The postings I make on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
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| mgk wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The Request node doesn't directly support chunked requests |
This is correct for outbound requests - but it does support chunked responses to requests made... |
So the HTTPInput and HTTPResponse nodes will handle chunked data for you.
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