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| mbwagner |
 Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:09 am Post subject: IIB Migration |
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Novice
Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Posts: 17
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Hi All,
The plan is to migrate the WMB 7.0.0.7 to IIB 9.0.0.5 on AIX 7.0.
I have review the Migration procedure and document from the Infocenter.
I have some doubt/queries before implement the migration on test environment.
There are multiple application services are hosted in the WMB 7.0 environment.
The plan is to migrate the service by service (one service at a time) from MB 7.0 to IIB 9.0 to reduce the impact.
MB 7.0 and IIB 9.0 are coexist each other with the different installation location on the same server.
Question 1 - I do not how /var/mqsi will be differentiate for the MB 7.0 Broker and IIB 9.0 Broker. How broker registry will be maintain in the common location i.e. /var/mqsi for MB 7.0 Broker and IIB 9.0 Broker.
Post Installation, we will create new broker with the different naming convention in the IIB 9.0.
Question 2 - WMB 7.0 and IIB 9.0 will be run with the single queue manger? Is it possible to have a single MQ queue manager for MB 7.0 and IIB 9.0 environment. MQ will be also hosted on the same node with MB 7.0 and IIB 9.0 or I have to create dedicated MQ queue manager for MB7.0 Broker and IIB 9.0 Broker.
For example - When I migrate one service from MB 7.0 to IIB 9.0. I have to stop the service specific execution group/message flow into MB 7.0 and need to start respective service specific execution group/message flow in IIB 9.0 to get the request for process using IIB 9.0 Broker.
Need your advise what will be recommended option? I have to keep separate two different queue manager for MB 7.0 and IIB 9.0 or same queue manager will be setup for both the environment. If I create the separate queue manager for IIB 9.0 then I have to setup each and every MQ objects on the both the queue manager...
Thanks, wagner |
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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You are neglecting the fact that you will have to upgrade MQ as well.
Are you running MQ V7 with your V7 broker?
Well, you need to plan on upgrading MQ to a supported version as well as upgrading broker.
Your option 2 won't work. You can't run both brokers at the same time.
Then there are all the issues around the change in MQ security. You will have to take that into consideration as well.
I've done a few upgrades and you will need to do a pilot migratino on a different set of hardware. Then you can test the operaton of the Broker flows and make any changes that are needed. Don't rely on all your flows working 100% the same on IIB 9 as they did on V7. Why?
Well, (and there are posts here that prove it) there have been a lot of changes to broker since V7. Many flows to work but others only worked on V7 because of an inherrent defect that the developer was not aware of at the time of coding. These defects could have been rectified since then. That means that what did work now does not.
This is only the tip of the iceberg. There are lots more issues that you will have to resolve.
_________________
WMQ User since 1999
MQSI/WBI/WMB/'Thingy' User since 2002
Linux user since 1995
Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions. |
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| mbwagner |
| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:52 pm Post subject: IIB Migration |
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Novice
Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Posts: 17
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Present environment is MQ 7.0.1.13 and MB 7.0.0.5.
Queue Manager will be plan to upgrade from MQ V7.0.1.13 to MQ 7.5 before MB migration. (I think MB 7.0.0.5 is also compatible with IIB 9.0 as per the prerequisites provided in the infocenter.)
Presently there are 70+ services are hosted in the message broker 7.0 and also setup integration with multiple backend system using JDBC, ODBC, MQ, Oracle AQ-MQ, .NET, JBOSS etc..
As I mentioned, the plan is to migrate one service at a time so our application development team will test the end-to-end testing in the test environment with the compatibility with surrounding application system respective to service and if everything works fine then service will be plan to deploy it on IIB 9.0 environment. The same time that service (execution group/message flow) will be stop in the MB 7.0 environment before deploy it on IIB 9.0 broker.
Your option 2 won't work. You can't run both brokers at the same time - The plan is run both the broker at the same time but service will be up and running only one broker at a time. Is this approach possible? recommended?
For example - Presently service A running in MB 7.0 broker environment. This particular service will be end-to-end test in SIT and development environment using IIB 9.0 broker environment. If everything working fine in the test and development environment then same service will be stop on the MB 7.0 environment and same service will be newly deployed on the IIB 9.0 broker.
There will be higher risk to migrate all the services at single go from MB 7.0 to IIB 9.0 environment and that is the reason plan is to migrate one service at a time to avoid major impact.
Is there any specific problem to run single queue manager (MQ 7.5) for MB 7.0 and IIB 9.0 Broker environment?
Is there any specific reason that both the broker can't run at the same time?
What is the recommended approach to migrate the MB 7.0 to IIB 9.0 with the service by service in the same node.
The reason for avoiding to setup IIB 9.0 broker in the different server/node is because there are multiple firewall are already open between MB 7.0 to multiple backend system and do not want any surprise at last moment because of firewall issue.
Thanks,
wagner |
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:39 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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you plan to test the migration on your production Server?
Why? Isn't this a risk in itself. Should you not setup a test ebvironment where you can test it all (well 90%+ at the very least) before moving to production?
The old law
What gan go wrong will go wrong
Will surely come into play here.
you can simulate the external services. you knoe the data going to/from them. Why not invest the time is setting up this FIRST?
If someone asked me to migrate using only production then I'd say
No. sorry... (and then look for another position)
The last system I upgraded we setup another temp server that ran V7 (MQ + Broker) while we upgraded the production Cluster. Then we moved the services over to the new server one by one. If it didn't work, we were able to move it back to the V7 server while we sorted it out. Out of 50+ flows we only had one problem that wasn't picked up in earlier testing.
_________________
WMQ User since 1999
MQSI/WBI/WMB/'Thingy' User since 2002
Linux user since 1995
Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions. |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:26 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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If you want to use the same queue manager, you should be using IIB10 and not IIB9... 
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MQ & Broker admin |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:32 am Post subject: Re: IIB Migration |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| mbwagner wrote: |
| Is there any specific problem to run single queue manager (MQ 7.5) for MB 7.0 and IIB 9.0 Broker environment? |
Yes - it doesn't work. Brokers below v10 expect to be the only broker assigned to a queue manager so don't create unique SYSTEM.BROKER queues. So both brokers will drop messages in the same queues and conflict with each other.
| mbwagner wrote: |
| Is there any specific reason that both the broker can't run at the same time? |
Assuming individual queue managers for each broker, they'll still conflict for port numbers for web service end points, file directories and so forth. So you'll still end up having to change the code in all probability, and firewalls if they're at a port level.
You'll also need to change the work path and all the specific folders for the IIBv9 broker or it will default to /var/mqsi. You'll also need to change things like the ODBC path and so forth.
| mbwagner wrote: |
| What is the recommended approach to migrate the MB 7.0 to IIB 9.0 with the service by service in the same node. |
Yes - don't.
| mbwagner wrote: |
| The reason for avoiding to setup IIB 9.0 broker in the different server/node is because there are multiple firewall are already open between MB 7.0 to multiple backend system and do not want any surprise at last moment because of firewall issue. |
As I indicate above, if the firewalls are at a port level you're still likely to come unstuck. If you're in a position where you don't know how many firewalls are open in your production environment to a level you can't reproduce them for a new server, I would put it to you that you've got more serious problems that a code migration. That's a data breach waiting to happen.
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Insanity is the best defence. |
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| mbwagner |
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Posts: 17
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Hi,
Thanks for your all valuable inputs.
As per your inputs, I understand that single queue manager is not compatible with multiple broker (MB 7.0 and IIB 9.0)....
I will create new queue manager for the IIB 9.0 broker environment on the same server.
Need one clarification on creating two broker (one broker in MB 7.0 and another broker in IIB 9.0 in the same node/server.
Is it possible to up and running multiversion broker in the single node?
How there profiles (MB7.0 profile and IIB 9.0 profile) will be use to up the multiversion broker at the same time?
Is it possible to change the /var/mqsi location for IIB 9.0 broker as MB7.0 broker already running in /var/mqsi location. is there will be any conflict to use /var/mqsi common location for the both the broker environment?
How common work path /var/mqsi will be work in the production environment where MB 7.0 broker is running under HACMP. How IIB 9.0 parallel work with MB 7.0 during migration processes (service by service) in the same node.
Somehow I have not find any reference in the infocenter which will help me to clear all above doubts/queries....
Thanks,
wagner |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| mbwagner wrote: |
| Is it possible to up and running multiversion broker in the single node? |
Given that each has it's own queue manager and other considerations
| mbwagner wrote: |
| How there profiles (MB7.0 profile and IIB 9.0 profile) will be use to up the multiversion broker at the same time? |
You can't use the same profile for both - see my comment above regarding "other considerations".
| mbwagner wrote: |
| Is it possible to change the /var/mqsi location for IIB 9.0 broker as MB7.0 broker already running in /var/mqsi location. |
Yes - see my comment above regarding "other considerations".
| mbwagner wrote: |
| is there will be any conflict to use /var/mqsi common location for the both the broker environment? |
Yes - see my comment above regarding "other considerations".
| mbwagner wrote: |
| How common work path /var/mqsi will be work in the production environment where MB 7.0 broker is running under HACMP. How IIB 9.0 parallel work with MB 7.0 during migration processes (service by service) in the same node. |
As I indicate above, you can't use the common work path for both brokers, and you'll need to add the IIBv9 work path to the HACMP scripting like you have /var/mqsi - see my comment above regarding "other considerations".
| mbwagner wrote: |
| Somehow I have not find any reference in the infocenter which will help me to clear all above doubts/queries.... |
Now I wonder why there's no documentation on doing what you're trying to do. You'd have thought all the people who have done this before would have raised feedback requests and got IBM to add it....
(This should be a clue on how many people have tried this. You're on a path that leads to pain and misery).
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Honesty is the best policy.
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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| Vitor wrote: |
(This should be a clue on how many people have tried this. You're on a path that leads to pain and misery). |
 
You have been offered a way out of this (see my second post).
Trying to do this on a Production Server just would not be allowed in most companies.
My solution does offer a fallback while you do final testing (assuming that the external services don't have a test service). It isn't perfect and I know that many financial institutions wpuld not even allow the approach I've suggested.
We don't know the detail of your company/environment so we can only offer some general hits.
If you do try to do all of this on Production, you will most likely suffer a good deal of pain and misery as my esteemed colleague has already stated.
Don't do it!
_________________
WMQ User since 1999
MQSI/WBI/WMB/'Thingy' User since 2002
Linux user since 1995
Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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Broker handles having multiple versions installed on the same machine. This includes dealing with /var/mqsi.
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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| mqjeff wrote: |
| Broker handles having multiple versions installed on the same machine. This includes dealing with /var/mqsi. |
Remember migration from 6.0 to 7.0 being done that way, sharing the /var/mqsi path.
What you can't have is 2 brokers having the same Name on the same server. This would clash with /var/mqsi.... But having 2 brokers with different names and potentially at different product versions should not pose a problem.
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| fjb_saper wrote: |
| mqjeff wrote: |
| Broker handles having multiple versions installed on the same machine. This includes dealing with /var/mqsi. |
Remember migration from 6.0 to 7.0 being done that way, sharing the /var/mqsi path.
What you can't have is 2 brokers having the same Name on the same server. This would clash with /var/mqsi.... But having 2 brokers with different names and potentially at different product versions should not pose a problem. |
Depending on what you've done with the ODBC files and other materials that are not in /var/mqsi/<broker name>
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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| Vitor wrote: |
| fjb_saper wrote: |
| mqjeff wrote: |
| Broker handles having multiple versions installed on the same machine. This includes dealing with /var/mqsi. |
Remember migration from 6.0 to 7.0 being done that way, sharing the /var/mqsi path.
What you can't have is 2 brokers having the same Name on the same server. This would clash with /var/mqsi.... But having 2 brokers with different names and potentially at different product versions should not pose a problem. |
Depending on what you've done with the ODBC files and other materials that are not in /var/mqsi/<broker name> |
That's why each version runs in a different environment i.e. different odbcsysini and odbcini variables... and files...
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