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| z/OS to z/Linux, not via MQ? |
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| PeterPotkay |
 Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: z/OS to z/Linux, not via MQ? |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
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App A1 is an IMS app on z/OS.
App A2 is a batch job executing on z/OS.
App B is running on z/Linux, on the same physical mainframe box as the z/OS LPARs where App A1 and A2 execute.
AppA* initiates the transaction, and expects a response from App B.
We know MQ can allow these 3 apps to communicate over Hiper Sockets (fast), while taking care of the EBCDIC / ASCII conversion problem (good ol' MQ).
The communication requirement is synchronous, so the question on the table is if there are other protocols besides MQ to allow these apps to talk with each other while dealing with the conversion issues automatically. Nothing wrong with MQ as the solution, particularly since we already have MQ on both z/OS and z/Linux, its just that we want to insure all options are considered, especially since using MQ in this case is seen as adding an extra layer between the 2 apps. Performance and reliability are paramount, and the team wants to know if there is something more direct and synchronous to connect these apps.
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Peter Potkay
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
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I'm sure you've already looked at http:
-- certainly more synchronous, but conversion would have to be done by the app, maybe using a custom socket class?. Reliability should not be a problem as it is within the MF using hypersockets... 
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:16 am Post subject: Re: z/OS to z/Linux, not via MQ? |
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Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| PeterPotkay wrote: |
| ...and the team wants to know if there is something more direct and synchronous to connect these apps. |
HiperSockets flows TCP/IP cross-memory in a single z/architecture box. No CAT cables, no NIC cards, no routers, etc.. All this dramatically improves speed, bandwidth and reliability.
TCP/IP flows are as synchronous in HiperSockets as they are on other platforms. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by synchronous in this instance.
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: z/OS to z/Linux, not via MQ? |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
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| bruce2359 wrote: |
| PeterPotkay wrote: |
| ...and the team wants to know if there is something more direct and synchronous to connect these apps. |
HiperSockets flows TCP/IP cross-memory in a single z/architecture box. No CAT cables, no NIC cards, no routers, etc.. All this dramatically improves speed, bandwidth and reliability.
TCP/IP flows are as synchronous in HiperSockets as they are on other platforms. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by synchronous in this instance. |
Something more direct and synchronous than MQ over HiperSockets. And this other solution would handle code page conversion so it doesn't need to be written by the app.
I know MQ is a good (best) solution for this. I want to know if there are other options available short of reinventing MQ.
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Peter Potkay
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
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Question is, in part, what other options do you have?
Does IMS let you issue an HTTP GET/POST?
I know your batch job would let you execute a file transfer - ftp for example - but that would be pretty ugly. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: z/OS to z/Linux, not via MQ? |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
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Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| PeterPotkay wrote: |
App A1 is an IMS app on z/OS.
App A2 is a batch job executing on z/OS.
App B is running on z/Linux, on the same physical mainframe box as the z/OS LPARs where App A1 and A2 execute.
AppA* initiates the transaction, and expects a response from App B.
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Is A2 a batch IMS app? Or batch WMQ?
Is WMQ installed on both z/OS and z/Linux?
How does appA* initiate a transaction? What kind of transaction? IMS, CICS, WMQ?
Is this a new app? Are you looking to improve its behavior with HiperSockets?
I. B. Confused.
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
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AppA1 and AppA2 are existing apps. They do not currently have any MQ calls in them
AppB will be a new app.
MQ is already on both z/OS and z/Linux.
We are talking about the ways AppA1 and AppA2 can talk to this new AppB. Yes, MQ is the easy answer. It may be the BEST answer. But is it the only answer????
I, of course, say use MQ. But I'm the MQ guy so that's what they expect me to say. The MQ option would feel better if we knew it was the only option, or if the list of other options were ugly compared to the MQ option. I find it hard to believe that MQ is the only way for an app on z/OS to talk to an app on z/Linux, short of the customer coding their own solution, own conversion, etc. Maybe due to the conversion issues MQ *is* the only way. Or maybe there are other mainframe products that do this. Inquiring minds wanna know.
That new app on z/Linux? Its going to reproduce functionality that currently exists in z/OS, but uses a lot of expen$ive mips in z/OS. So if we can move that processing over to z/Linux, we can save potentially a lot of money related to mips and software costs based on mips. BUT, the solution on z/Linux has to be FAST, and the communication between z/Linux has to be FAST and reliable, because this is replacing something that ran on z/OS where the calling programs ran. Yes, probably no matter what we do it will be slower because we are leaving z/OS and going to z/Linux. But if the SLAs are still met, and we save a boatload of money, who cares if its slower. We just have to make it as fast as possible. Is MQ the only option to hook these 2 systems up reliably?
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Peter Potkay
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
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Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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Application Program to Program Communication (APPC) is an alternative. APPC is supported on z/OS, z/VM, UNIX and Windoze.
Application programs use APPC API calls to create a session between two logical end points on the same or different platform o/s's. The app then converses (sends data) to the other end app. It is the responsibility of the app to ensure that data sent was successful, and to redrive the conversation if not. You know, basic application/network recovery.
Coding APPC is not all that difficult. Sample code exists. The manuals are good.
APPC is not store-and-forward asynchronous, like MQ. So, it might be the synchronous solution you are looking for.
I've written APPC (client) code embedded in a CICS program to get data from a UNIX-based GIS application.
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I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 25 Jun 2008
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Likely any libraries your IMS app has access to for talking HTTP will make it relatively simple to produce output that is already in Unicode, thus not needing translation from EBCDIC to ASCII.
Similarly if you decide to send XML data rather than copybook formatted data, regardless of what transport you send it over.... 
And converting the IMS app to emit Unicode is a strategic change rather than a tactical one - it now makes it easier for everything to talk to that app and for that app to be moved to non-ZOS without changing the callers.... |
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| gaurav6400 |
| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:42 pm Post subject: Applications communications running on z/linux & on z/OS |
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Joined: 18 Apr 2014
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Hi Peter,
I have similar requirement as you have. I don't know whether you got answer - as to what protocol will be best. My current solution has FTM and WTX both running on z/OS. For the same reason (to save MIPS) we want to run WTX on z/Linux or z/VM and FTM will continue to run on z/OS. I understand Hipersockets is best to make z/OS and z/linux talk but is 'MQ over Hipersockets' or 'HTTP over Hipersockets' or 'APPC over Hipersockets' or simply 'Hipersockets' to be considered?
Do you have the architecture diagram now ? |
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