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| bruce2359 |
 Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:57 am Post subject: Kindly do the needful. |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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There has been a recent uptick in the use of 'Kindly do the needful' phrase here. Replies to this idiom here have been terse at best, and sometimes angry and resentful.
FWIW, in an attempt to bridge the language barrier, I searched google, and found this:
From http://thedramakingscourt.blogspot.com/2007/10/kindly-do-needful.html:
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...but it doesn't seem like it's all that popular outside of India:
'You must be from India. All the Indian people I know write that phrase in e-mails. No offense, but we Americans do have a good chuckle over it.'
As a speaker of English, it sounds to me as if you are asking me to use the toilet.
Americans find "Kindly do the needful." to be insulting. We read it as "Hey Dumb *** you should have already done this, so do it now". To us it assigns blame, or makes it seem as if we have overlooked/avoided something. Just ask for what you would like done and say thank you after the request.
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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In larger organizations like 'discount double-check' insurance company, this phrase most often appears after an Assistant Vice President has replied all to an email chain asking that any further replies not use the reply all button.
At that point, every Indian contractor (sometimes as many as 250 on the chain) hits reply all and says 'Please do the needful.'
In general, I tend not to allow such petty communications bother me. PC has never been my aim.
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| PC has never been my aim. |
Spotted that. 
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| PC has never been my aim. |
More effective communications continues to be my aim.
This is an example of signal-vs.-noise. A simple tuning effort can help to reduce the noise.
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I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| zpat |
| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
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Here's a few
http://travel.cnn.com/mumbai/life/10-indianisms-652344
Sometimes these are just olde-worlde British English terms that were accidentally orphaned.
Americans sometimes use terms that I used to think were native to them until I found they were actually 18th century English ones which had fallen into disuse in the UK.
For example - Highway - although we still legally refer to roads as "The Queen's Highway"
Last edited by zpat on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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I am reminded of a former boss who referred to the men and women on my tech-support team as "your boys." In his culture, it was normal to be publicly dismissive of (other) minorities and women.
He just didn't know any better, until I told him to knock it off, as it was affecting esprit de corps. He was shocked that "a subordinate" I would be so direct with a "superior." He was equally dismissive of PC.
I'm not exactly sure where on the sliding-scale where PC begins or common courtesy and good manners end.
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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| bruce2359 wrote: |
| I'm not exactly sure where on the sliding-scale where PC begins or common courtesy and good manners end. |
IMHO, there is nothing wrong with being genuine, taking risks by revealing who you are and what you think.
The more a person does this, the more you provoke thought in others. Not everyone appreciates such effort. Some are scornful of it.
The contrast is a flattening of all potential highs or lows of a message. This obliterates the whole message and makes it difficult to understand what the intent of a person is.
If I am to be scorned, I would prefer to be scorned for what I genuinely am.
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| exerk |
| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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I am undoubtedly guilty of being one of the 'terse' respondents to a user of the phrase (I most certainly hope I do not come across as angry and resentful), mostly because in nearly every case it's used it's because the poster is wanting someone to sort out their problem for them rather than do it themselves - a generalisation possibly, and if so, I apologise in advance.
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| bruce2359 wrote: |
I am reminded of a former boss who referred to the men and women on my tech-support team as "your boys." In his culture, it was normal to be publicly dismissive of (other) minorities and women.
He just didn't know any better, until I told him to knock it off, as it was affecting esprit de corps. He was shocked that "a subordinate" I would be so direct with a "superior." He was equally dismissive of PC.
I'm not exactly sure where on the sliding-scale where PC begins or common courtesy and good manners end. |
I hate PC with a passion and I'm a great believer in positive discrimination - I will positively discriminate against any idiot that can't do their job! As far as I'm concerned I have only one criterion, irrespective of race, colour, creed, religion, sex, or orientation - can the individual do the job? I do have a problem with misogynists, racists, etc. and extremists of any ilk. Other than that, I'm really a people person...
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| exerk wrote: |
| Other than that, I'm really a people person... |
Of course. No doubt.
I, too, was taken aback by the apparent, implicit charge "why didn't you look it up for me!?" in this idiom.
My hope with my OP was to nudge us (all) to recognize how a simple phrase, with no harmful intent, can be simultaneously understood and misunderstood.
[edit]Death to PC! [/edit]
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I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| nathanw |
| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:39 am Post subject: |
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Knight
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 550
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The problem is that the phrase tends to be used in conjunction with simple questions or questions which are interview / certification type questions
Now most people on here have got where they are by hard work over a period of time and people asking for answers without doing the work tends to upset other people
The phrase does not bother me in the slightest but the accompaning questions do
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| zpat |
| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:29 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
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| exerk wrote: |
| I do have a problem with misogynists, racists, etc. and extremists of any ilk. Other than that, I'm really a people person... |
Nigel Powers: All right Goldmember. Don't play the laughing boy. There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch. |
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| Cressida |
| Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:34 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 157
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We kind of ' do the needful ' by  the  types when the opportunity presents itself  |
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