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Message
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| eai_guy |
 Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:34 pm Post subject: Using Third party Jar files in Message broker JCN |
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Voyager
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 90
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Hi,
I always get these requirements saying we need to invoke Java applications by making use of their third party jar files through JCN in Message broker 7.
I am of the opinion that you cannot make message broker work as a Java application by making use of some custom java APIs by making use of these third party jars in shared libraries.
All message broker can do is call an application by making use of web services, passing messages through MQ and so on.
Please comment with your opinion
Thanks, |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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Well it REALLY depends on what you want to do with the content and the message payload.
In general it is a horrible idea to try and treat WMB like a J2EE appserver.
It is definitely not one and this will lead to pain and suffering.
On the other hand, WHEN APPROPRIATE, and that decision should be left for an expert to make, including a 3rd party jar may be just what you needed for that flow...
Have fun 
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| eai_guy |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Voyager
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 90
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| fjb_saper wrote: |
Well it REALLY depends on what you want to do with the content and the message payload.
In general it is a horrible idea to try and treat WMB like a J2EE appserver.
It is definitely not one and this will lead to pain and suffering.
On the other hand, WHEN APPROPRIATE, and that decision should be left for an expert to make, including a 3rd party jar may be just what you needed for that flow...
Have fun |
Thanks for your reply! 
I have been told that this Integration would be with HP extreame to get back a PDF stream by passing certain data elements. Still wondering how message broker will behave with this.....
I have checked out the Integration points which HP extreame offers as a product and it says we can Integrate with HP exteame using MQ, SOAP, Web services. I was still wondering if we can go with these Integration options
Still skeptical of using these HP extreame APIs to make calls from JCNs |
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| zpat |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
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It is possible to use these, what I term "alien" JAR files inside WMB.
All I can say is don't do it. Stick to standard, IBM supported, WMB features.
Many of the problems that I am seeing in our developments relate to using such jar files.
I wish there was a way to turn off JCNs in the product. |
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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| zpat wrote: |
I wish there was a way to turn off JCNs in the product. |
You'd better take cover then as I'd expect a barrage (or sorts) from a few people here who seem to push JCN's wherever possible.
For me, dropping onto the murky depths and class incantations of Java is an option of 'last resort'.
I had to do it to work nicely with the IBM LDAP server and also to do some mangling of PDF's but generally I don't like it.
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Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions. |
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| eai_guy |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Voyager
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 90
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Thanks guys!
I would definitely push for making use of web services for this integration with third party product by asking them to do doing some custom development, rather than using these jars keeping in mind the message flow I am designing has to have real time capability to be exposed as a web service
Thanks |
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| Esa |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Finland
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| Sometimes you need to use third party libraries. Anyhow, I think it's a good habit to isolate ALL third party jar files from the rest of the execution group by using configurable class loaders. |
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| jlaisbett |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Apprentice
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 39
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We use java ... Kind of. Although useful for us it's primarily a skill set thing. We do however follow certain rules:
When working with messages always use the broker API. Don't try to wrap XML in java objects or something like that, might make sense in JEE but in broker you basically throw away all the benefits of the platform.
Integration with external systems should always use messaging and out of the box supported capabilities such as web services or mq in preference to java Api's, api's should only be used as a last resort.
Api's for aiding in transformation logic or similar is acceptable.
Use built in nodes that aren't code based in preference to java wherever possible, it is a compute node and you shouldn't over use them.
Basically treat it the same way you would treat ESQL, performing the same kind of tasks you would in an ESQL compute node and it's fine. Going beyond that is certainly doable but can be more pain than it's worth if you have alternatives. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:40 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| fjb_saper wrote: |
In general it is a horrible idea to try and treat WMB like a J2EE appserver.
It is definitely not one and this will lead to pain and suffering.
On the other hand, WHEN APPROPRIATE, and that decision should be left for an expert to make, including a 3rd party jar may be just what you needed for that flow... |
With the caveat that some "experts" are more expert than others.
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Insanity is the best defence. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:17 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| zpat wrote: |
| I wish there was a way to turn off JCNs in the product. |
You don't want to turn off JCNs.
You want to turn off certain developers and the management that enable them. Refer to your local criminal codes for possible methods.
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Insanity is the best defence. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| Vitor wrote: |
| You want to turn off certain developers and the management that enable them. |
Just wait'll they get their hands on .NET in v8. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:25 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| mqjeff wrote: |
| Vitor wrote: |
| You want to turn off certain developers and the management that enable them. |
Just wait'll they get their hands on .NET in v8. |
That part of the product announcement made my blood run cold.
I know one guy (who thankfully is on a site far, far away in terms of both time & distance) who will immedately move his entire .NET GUI application into WMB. I just know he will.
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Using Third party Jar files in Message broker JCN |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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| eai_guy wrote: |
Hi,
I always get these requirements saying we need to invoke Java applications by making use of their third party jar files through JCN in Message broker 7.
I am of the opinion that you cannot make message broker work as a Java application by making use of some custom java APIs by making use of these third party jars in shared libraries.
All message broker can do is call an application by making use of web services, passing messages through MQ and so on.
Please comment with your opinion
Thanks, |
Your assertion is incorrect. We use third-party jars from both Java Compute Nodes as well as ESQL Compute Nodes. They work very well and perform needed functions nicely.
For example, we call an address standardization web service which returns the standardized address in all caps. Since we want the text to be human-friendly, we call Apache commons jar to camel-case the text.
I'm not sure why Vitor et al is opposed to using Java or jars, but this is a fantastic way to use off-the-shelf tooling without re-inventing the wheel.
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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| Vitor wrote: |
| fjb_saper wrote: |
In general it is a horrible idea to try and treat WMB like a J2EE appserver.
It is definitely not one and this will lead to pain and suffering.
On the other hand, WHEN APPROPRIATE, and that decision should be left for an expert to make, including a 3rd party jar may be just what you needed for that flow... |
With the caveat that some "experts" are more expert than others. |
I'm just a pert. Have not been demoted to ex-pert yet.
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Using Third party Jar files in Message broker JCN |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| I'm not sure why Vitor et al is opposed to using Java or jars, but this is a fantastic way to use off-the-shelf tooling without re-inventing the wheel. |
I don't use it because I can't write it. I view JCNs with some suspicion because Java coders tend to write them like applets (e.g. assuming that they don't need to release memory at the end of the node code).
I have no objection to using a jar if it provides a needed function that isn't supplied by the product. That's not my experience of how Java is used inside WMB, and there are enough posts on this forum to illustrate it's not just my sites that people try this.
I accept that with the code review and other processes on your site this never happens. Let's not go down that road again.
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