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| why do some people think MQ is a piece of cake |
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| ankurlodhi |
 Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:20 am Post subject: why do some people think MQ is a piece of cake |
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Master
Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 266
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Man i am irritated about this thing,, mostly people in my team think MQ is peice of cake, a WAS admin said. i can learn MQ in 10, I was so pissed that i said ok learn it in 10 days , i will ask you 5 questions if u can answer only 2 i would say u can learn in further...
and now after 15 i asked him 5 questions, and he was no where near,
but y do people think its a piece of cake. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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In one sense, MQ is a piece of cake. It's software, it's well documented, and it behaves like other pieces of software. So if you have experience configuring, administering, troubleshooting and developing with other pieces of software, then the same general practices and methods apply.
In another sense, MQ is not a piece of cake, because it's complex and has a number of subtleties to it that are not obvious.
The key factor to dealing with MQ, particularly when learning, is to read, think, try.. and then loop back around again to read some more, think some more, and try some more.
And, again, the more you read the information center, the better idea you'll have of where to find the information you need. |
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| zpat |
| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
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When they pass the certification exam, then they are ready to start learning on the job.
After using MQ for 15 years, I still find out new things (and not always on new features). |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| ankurlodhi wrote: |
| ...but y do people think its a peice of cake. |
I think because in six months of hands-on experience with it, it is easy to get (as mqjeff alluded to) reasonably competent - or appear so - and gain a good surface knowledge; I certainly felt that way until the first time I got bitten, and then realised I knew next to naff-all about it! And before the illustrious Vitor steams in with the comment that I still know next to naff-all... 
If you want to wind up the WAS Admin that's easy - just tell him that you've seen it done and any idiot can click Next >, click Next >, click Finish...
| zpat wrote: |
| When they pass the certification exam, then they are ready to start learning on the job. |
I'd like to agree with you, but I've seen too many cases of people obtaining the exam dumps, memorising them, and passing the exam, which somewhat devalues it for those who do not rook the system.
| zpat wrote: |
| After using MQ for 15 years, I still find out new things (and not always on new features). |
Now we're singing off the same hymn sheet brother! That more than anything is why I like it so much, it's a moving target that keeps the enthusiasm fresh - every day is a school day! 
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:35 am Post subject: Re: what does some people think MQ is a piece of cake |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9470
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| ankurlodhi wrote: |
| ...but y do people think _____ is a peice of cake? |
Technical folks come pre-equipped with a level of professional pride (arrogance) about their specialty. Lawyers have it, doctors have it, sysadmins have it. Often, this arrogance is earned; more often is is not.
I'm quite entertained by the intra-cubicle banter "Windows is better than Linux;" "the mainframe sucks;" "Oracle is better than DB2;" etc..
Don't take it personally. "Piece of cake" tells me that the speaker doesn't really understand the breadth and depth of WMQs capabilities.
I think WMQ is more like a piece of pie than cake, but that's just my opinion.
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I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| ankurlodhi |
| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 266
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its not over that much, but .. some people does think WMQ is a piece of cake, although they know its a very fantastic track,
but the guy who was very confident about him self, I put his arrogence to rest in just my 4 question, and I said.
you didn't even scrached the surface of MQ were going to learn it all in 10 days,  |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9470
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| ankurlodhi wrote: |
| ...I put his arrogence to rest in just my 4 question, and I said ...you didn't even scrached the surface of MQ were going to learn it all in 10 days, |
This behavior (his saying that 'its a piece of cake' and your attempt to shame him) is counter-productive - it creates needless hostility.
Don't take it personally. Don't get involved in this type of petty bickering. Just smile, and rest assured that he is an idiot. Don't challenge him to a duel, and prove that you, too, are an idiot.
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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| bruce2359 wrote: |
| ankurlodhi wrote: |
| ...I put his arrogence to rest in just my 4 question, and I said ...you didn't even scrached the surface of MQ were going to learn it all in 10 days, |
This behavior (his saying that 'its a piece of cake' and your attempt to shame him) is counter-productive - it creates needless hostility.
Don't take it personally. Don't get involved in this type of petty bickering. Just smile, and rest assured that he is an idiot. Don't challenge him to a duel, and prove that you, too, are an idiot. |
Sure but it can get mighty irritating when management listens to that guy just because you didn't say anything... 
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| gbaddeley |
| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: what does some people think MQ is a piece of cake |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 2538
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| ankurlodhi wrote: |
Man i am irritated about this thing,, mostly people in my team think MQ is peice of cake, a WAS admin said. i can learn MQ in 10, I was so pissed that i said ok learn it in 10 days , i will ask you 5 questions if u can answer only 2 i would say u can learn in further...
and now after 15 i asked him 5 questions, and he was no where near,
but y do people think its a peice of cake. |
I've heard that disparaging remark too. Its probably because MQ has the great beauty of being conceptually very simple, however there is a great deal of complexity hidden under the covers.
Useful admin or developer skills can be gained failry quickly, but a deep understanding of features, internal operation and design nouse takes many years to develop.
We used to have a set of printed MQ manuals and the shelf was over a metre long!
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Glenn |
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| zpat |
| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
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| When I was a mainframe systems programmer, we had literally a library full of IBM manuals and a librarian to look after them (you used to get "fixes" for manuals in those days). |
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| ankurlodhi |
| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:03 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 266
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I just love going in depth of things and learning how the way they work, I am but first i am tring to gain handfull admin skills,
I wanna get the nobel prize for MQ....  |
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| Michael Dag |
| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:41 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 2607
Location: The Netherlands (Amsterdam)
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conceptually it's simple, just like carambole billiards
you see a table, two white balls, a red one and you have to make them hit another... how hard can that be...
I quit playing billiards, but been playing MQ for more then 14 years now and still enjoying and learning every day
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Michael
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9470
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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...and in summary:
There are enough needful arguments in life. Whether WMQ is 'cake' or not is an example of a needless argument.
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| ankurlodhi |
| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 266
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next time when someone will say something like they find MQ very easy
I will Smile, and move on ..!! |
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| gbaddeley |
| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 2538
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Michael Dag wrote: |
conceptually it's simple, just like carambole billiards
you see a table, two white balls, a red one and you have to make them hit another... how hard can that be...
I quit playing billiards, but been playing MQ for more then 14 years now and still enjoying and learning every day |
I played competitive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_billiards for many years and have a couple of trophies. 3 balls on a 6' by 12' table with 6 pockets. The usual competitive form is the highest score wins after a set time of play (eg. 1 hour, up to a few hours). Physically and mentally challenging, and very tactical. Its one of those games where a 70 year old will always beat a less skillful 20 year old. I also played competitive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snooker . Both these games are quite popular in English Commonwealth countries and have world championships.
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Glenn |
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