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| vikas.bhu |
 Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:32 pm Post subject: Invoking the Message flow at 8 AM |
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Disciple
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 159
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Hi,
How can we invoke the Messge flow at say 8 am every day.
without invoking any external trigger(example MQ,DB etc) |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:01 am Post subject: Re: Invoking the Message flow at 8 AM |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| vikas.bhu wrote: |
| How can we invoke the Messge flow at say 8 am every day. |
Timer node?
| vikas.bhu wrote: |
| without invoking any external trigger(example MQ,DB etc) |
Why not? This sort of thing is much better suited to cron or other scheduling software.
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:32 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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The design of the product means that it runs all the time. If a message is dropped into the queue or the SOAPInput node is invoked, it does its thing.
You don't start WAS server at 8 AM, why would you want to start a message flow at 8 AM?
Can you imagine having to wait for Amazon.com to boot everytime you wanted to use it?
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| bloomy |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:22 am Post subject: |
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Acolyte
Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 61
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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By invoke do you mean to start the message flow at 8AM, if you want to do this I would suggest to write up a script with mqsistart commands and schedule it through cron or Control-M or any other scheduling software.
If you want to process the messages at 8Am and you dont want to stop the flow, you can use timer nodes. I used them for refreshing my database cache at a particular time every morning. |
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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You should not be starting and stopping Broker or Message Flows to control when something gets processed.
You could GET_DISABLE the input queue if you wanted to do this.
WMB is a high-speed messaging engine. It's not a car you start and drive someplace and stop and get out.
Have you taken the WM663 class? If not, why not?
You don't turn on a Unix server when you have work for the Unix server to do? Why not attach the Unix server's power cord to an electric timer and just turn on the Unix server at 8 AM? Does it seem silly to you?
Your design approach is off-base IMHO.
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| mapa |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 09 Aug 2001
Posts: 257
Location: Malmö, Sweden
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I think it is OK for certain rare scenarios to have a message flow only active at specific time slots.
Easily done with suggested external scheduling that stops and starts the flow.
It's implemented in later versions of the Java integration framework Apache Camel as a reference. They have done it using Quartz and cron expressions. I've actually had use for this recently.
Disclaimer:
I don't compare the broker with Camel  |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| mapa wrote: |
| I think it is OK for certain rare scenarios to have a message flow only active at specific time slots. |
| mapa wrote: |
| They have done it using Quartz and cron expressions. |
I suggested cron further up this thread.
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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I never paint a broad brush with a dogmatic answer, so I leave room for the rare instances when its desired to do so. And cron is a good one to use for a rare instance when you want to do something like it. (Good suggestion, Sir Vitor).
That being said, its not a mainstream approach to turn on and off message flows or Broker instances. The OP never disclosed his design rationale, so its hard to point out the alternatives.
If you want to run batch model, processing a group of records once a day, then buy a mainframe. If you want to run in the 21st Century, fully utilizing distributed processing techniques, then write your online processes to be truly modern.
Punch cards are nice, and they work. Real time distributed processing works better. Think and design 21st Century style, for best success.
Vikas.bhu, have you taken the WM663 training class yet? If not, why not?
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| vikas.bhu |
| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 159
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| vikas.bhu |
| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:08 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 159
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Request you to prove some docs to read as the cost of traing is $3125.
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:46 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| vikas.bhu wrote: |
| Request you to prove some docs to read as the cost of traing is $3125. |
But the *value* of that cost is that you will be qualified to do the job you are being paid to do.
So explain that to your boss, and say that it is why your boss needs to spend that money. |
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:57 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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| vikas.bhu wrote: |
Request you to prove some docs to read as the cost of traing is $3125.
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WMB is not Java. You cannot pick it up in a weekend or two reading some docs and playing with the toolkit.
The WM663 class gives you a mixture of lecture and hands-on laboratory exercises. The instructor properly sets the WMB concepts with a frame of reference that helps you begin with the right design approaches.
As you presented, approaching a distributed messaging engine as if it were a batch processing system is not the right approach. If you start off your design with the wrong direction, how will you change direction after your code is in production? You need the context of the instructor's framework in order to understand the principles.
If you choose not to attend the training, find some other tool to use besides WMB because WMB seems it is not for you.
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| vikas.bhu |
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 159
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MR:lancelotlinc
I find middle ware tools specially WMB and WMQ quite easy.
And by reading the documents and doing R&D guys from every part of world are able to deliver the complex projects.
I am one of them..Request you to not give such kind of suggestion on forum to any one...Because new commerce reads this kinds of threads and they deliver their projects without any training ....
Thanks :
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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| vikas.bhu wrote: |
MR:lancelotlinc
I find middle ware tools specially WMB and WMQ quite easy.
And by reading the documents and doing R&D guys from every part of world are able to deliver the complex projects.
I am one of them..Request you to not give such kind of suggestion on forum to any one...Because new commerce reads this kinds of threads and they deliver their projects without any training ....
Thanks :
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Well you may be the rare bird that knows it all and finds it relatively easy!!! Congratulation to you !!
But it is because of your attitude that we see more and more implementation where everything goes wrong, anti-pattern are being implemented, all best practices thrown to the wind, and it takes an unholy amount of time for the broker to process a simple task instead of miliseconds... 
Businesses buy WMB for a competitive advantage. What is then the point in throwing that advantage away, due to poor or no training? Go get an open source product! You may not have the competitive advantage but at least you're not throwing your money away...
So forgive us if we insist on professionals getting the proper training.
And no WMB is not just another J2EE container or framework!
Have fun 
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| vikas.bhu wrote: |
| I find middle ware tools specially WMB and WMQ quite easy. |
I just reviewed some of your earlier posts. Humph.
| vikas.bhu wrote: |
| And by reading the documents and doing R&D guys from every part of world are able to deliver the complex projects. |
But do they do them well, do they do them right and why do we get so many simplistic questions posted here?
| vikas.bhu wrote: |
| I am one of them.. |
Well maybe.
| vikas.bhu wrote: |
| Because new commerce reads this kinds of threads and they deliver their projects without any training .... |
You are of course right. Training is way down the list of priorities for most organisations and individuals. And this kind of thing is one reason I here a lot of "WMB is a bad choice, it takes ages to deliver solutions and you never get the advantages IBM promises".
Take my situation. Please, someone take it. ESQL developed by untrained and inexperienced people. There are a number of locations where character dollar values are turned into integers by SUBSTRINGing everything after the 1st character (to remove the $) and then using TRANSLATE to remove the commas. I don't know what breaks my heart more; that they didn't simply include a FORMAT with the CAST or that they didn't put this as a common function but cut & pasted it everywhere they needed it.
The reason? They didn't know FORMAT could be used like that & they didn't know how to create a user function that could be used in multiple COMPUTE nodes. And didn't have time to do R&D because they had a delivery schedule.
(I blew their minds when they saw SUBSTRING....AFTER...)
People should get training on this product. People don't. I wish lancelotlinc would stop going on about it as well but what can you do?
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