| Author |
Message
|
| Esa |
 Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:52 am Post subject: DFDL |
 |
|
Grand Master
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Finland
|
A quote from another thread:
| mqmatt wrote: |
In WMB V8, both the DFDL component and the mapper are designed as separable components, and will be used in multiple products.
|
DFDL parsers will also be used with several other products like DataPower and WESB. The parser in Message Broker will be implemented in C++, I suppose? For WESB the parser has to be written in java.
What about a support pack that would enable the java based DFDL parser to be used in Message Broker V7? I am not suggesting that all input nodes would have to support DFDL, but it would be nice if you could call DFDL parser from JCN. That would offer customers a smoother migration path from MRM to DFDL. (No, I am not saying that MRM will be replaced by DFDL. But there will certainly be customers that would like to move all new development to DFDL, even while they are still using V7) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| mqjeff |
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
|
In theory, at least, DFDL is an open standard and more than just IBM can implement a parser for it.
So in theory, at least, there should be some kind of an apache or other reference parser available... that could then be included in a JCN in v7. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
|
"Paging Mr Kimbert. Will Mr Kimbert please pick up the thread on the courtesy phone? Mr Kimbert, courtesy phone phone for a parser discussion. Thank you."
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Esa |
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Grand Master
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Finland
|
| mqjeff wrote: |
In theory, at least, DFDL is an open standard and more than just IBM can implement a parser for it.
So in theory, at least, there should be some kind of an apache or other reference parser available... that could then be included in a JCN in v7. |
In theory, yes. But I have not found any, yet.
DFDL only defines how non-XML data is described in a standard way. It does not state the representation of the parsed message in memory. (correct me if I am wrong). I suppose a third party parser would produce a DOM tree, or raise SAX compatible events. WMB V8 DFDL parser will propably build an MBMessage, that is, an in-memory message three compliant with Message Broker. So, A DFDL parser designed for WESB won't do, or at least you would have to transform the message to MbMessage yourself. Not bad, either, because you can implement a generic transformer for that. Some overhead, of course, but that is something you can live with as it would be a temporary solution.
I suppose I am a bit too early bird to catch any worms?
Lancelot, I think your link points to V8 features list? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
|
| Esa wrote: |
| Lancelot, I think your link points to V8 features list? |
V8 is not out yet, and this is the current page on IBM site. Therefore, I would expect that the parser is available in some version of 7 (7.0.0.4 maybe).
Vitor has a page out to the expert. I'm just the pert.
_________________
http://leanpub.com/IIB_Tips_and_Tricks
Save $20: Coupon Code: MQSERIES_READER |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Michael Dag |
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
Jedi Knight
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 2607
Location: The Netherlands (Amsterdam)
|
The page refers to the 'marketing' page of WMB, from a marketing perspective V8 is announced and 'out there'
_________________
Michael
MQSystems Facebook page |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
|
| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| V8 is not out yet, and this is the current page on IBM site. Therefore, I would expect that the parser is available in some version of 7 (7.0.0.4 maybe). |
| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| Vitor has a page out to the expert. I'm just the pert. |
You're certainly something.
My request was for the God Of Parsing to comment (if possible) on the discussion as to how DFDL will be implemented in v8.
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| mqmatt |
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
Grand Master
Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 1213
Location: Hursley, UK
|
The features page lancelotlinc referred to is all V8 content, and IBM hasn't announced any plans to back-port DFDL to V7.
As I said earlier, DFDL has been explicitly designed to be a standalone component and will be used in multiple products. But as far as WMB goes, there are a few enhancements which we've put into the core V8 broker to allow DFDL to slide more easily in, making a back-port non-trivial. (Outside of the MRM you no longer need message sets, for example.)
Hope this helps!
-Matt |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Esa |
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Grand Master
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Finland
|
| mqmatt wrote: |
| But as far as WMB goes, there are a few enhancements which we've put into the core V8 broker to allow DFDL to slide more easily in, making a back-port non-trivial. |
Yes, that's what I expected. I am not talking about a back-port but a workaround that would allow customers to start modeling with DFDL even while they are still running V7. A simple (java) implementation of DFDL parser that does not need to support advanced features like discriminators and lookahead.
There does not seem to be any valid third party DFDL parser implementations available. I googled up Daffodil project, which is a replacement of an earlier Defuddle parser. Both of these seem to suffer from serious shortcomings. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
|
Seems like we need a volunteer to create an open source reference implementation of the DFDL spec. Apache has not yet adopted any DFDL position as far as I can tell, so I would not rely on them to have one soon.
_________________
http://leanpub.com/IIB_Tips_and_Tricks
Save $20: Coupon Code: MQSERIES_READER |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
|
| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| Seems like we need a volunteer to create an open source reference implementation of the DFDL spec. |
Well done and thank you. Do post back here when you're finished....
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
|
| Vitor wrote: |
| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| Seems like we need a volunteer to create an open source reference implementation of the DFDL spec. |
Well done and thank you. Do post back here when you're finished.... |
I'm leaving for the Philippines on Friday for two weeks, so if I have time between sun bathing and pina coladäs - margaritas, I'll zip up my code and post it.
_________________
http://leanpub.com/IIB_Tips_and_Tricks
Save $20: Coupon Code: MQSERIES_READER |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
|
| lancelotlinc wrote: |
I'm leaving for the Philippines on Friday for two weeks, |
Where the 'envy' emoticon when you need it.
I'll just have to settle for a week in Hunstanton {hopefully photographing some Barn Owls in flight}
_________________
WMQ User since 1999
MQSI/WBI/WMB/'Thingy' User since 2002
Linux user since 1995
Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Vitor |
| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
|
| smdavies99 wrote: |
| I'll just have to settle for a week in Hunstanton {hopefully photographing some Barn Owls in flight} |
There's nothing wrong with Sunny Hunny.
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
