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Message
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| bprasana |
 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:43 am Post subject: WAS v/s WMB |
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Disciple
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 179
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Hi,
I have been recently asked by my client to validate the technology used to Message routing and transformation.
Many team in my project chose WMB Broker as their 'middleware' . But now the customer wants to know why WMB was chosen and not WAS for Message Routing,Orchestration and Enrichment.
If any of you have done a feasibility study, Can you throw some light on advantages of using WMB over WAS?
Regards,
bprasana |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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Broker is designed from the ground up to provide ESB mediation and transformation services.
WAS is designed from the ground up to host J2EE applications.
Why use a pickup truck to move school children? |
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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You answer your customer by saying:
"WAS provides no message routing, no orchestration, and no enrichment. WMB provides message routing and enrichment. Therefore, WMB was chosen."
Did you not know this, or did you just want some moral support?
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| bprasana |
| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:32 am Post subject: Customer |
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Disciple
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 179
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| Quote: |
You answer your customer by saying:
"WAS provides no message routing, no orchestration, and no enrichment. WMB provides message routing and enrichment. Therefore, WMB was chosen."
Did you not know this, or did you just want some moral support? |
My customer would then argue that message routing can be done using java and transformation using xsl stylesheet.And it can even perform the enrichment.
| Quote: |
Broker is designed from the ground up to provide ESB mediation and transformation services.
WAS is designed from the ground up to host J2EE applications.
Why use a pickup truck to move school children? |
By designing broker for mediation and transformation, what advantages do we get?
Will it perform better? will it scale better than WAS?
Is the maintenance cost of WMB flow lower that the java code deployed in WAS?
I am basically looking for these answers! |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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You are basically not looking for these answers.
You are basically asking for these answers.
If you took the basic time to look for these answers, you would not have to ask. |
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| bprasana |
| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject: Point Taken |
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Disciple
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 179
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Can you point me to a document where it compares WAS to WMB?Or am i comparing oranges to apples?
I am editing this post as i got some info from http://www-01.ibm.com/software/integration/wsesb/v6/faqs.html#offerings
When do I use WebSphere ESB, WebSphere Message Broker or WebSphere DataPower?
When to Use WebSphere ESB?
You use WebSphere Application Server and/or your team has skills with WAS Administration and Java coding
You are now or planning on developing business process using WebSphere Process Server (WebSphere ESB and WPS have common tooling, programming model, and runtime)
You are integrating with ISV business applications hosted on WAS or 3rd party solutions which extend and support WAS
You are focused on standards based interactions using XML, SOAP, and WS
You want to mediate between Web services and existing systems using JMS and WebSphere JCA Adapters
Reliability and extensive transactional support are key requirements
You want to minimize your server investment by co-hosting WebSphere services and ESB in one application server
When to Use WebSphere Message Broker?
You are currently using WebSphere Message Broker but not as an ESB
You have extensive heterogeneous infrastructures, including both standard and non-standards-based applications, protocols, and data formats
- You have extensive MQ skills and infrastructure
- You are using Industry formats such as SWIFT, EDI, HL7
You are implementing a wide range of messaging and integration patterns
- Complex event processing, message splitting and aggregation
You need extensive pre-built mediation support
You have very complex transformation needs
Reliability and extensive transactional support are key requirements
To achieve very high-performance with horizontal and vertical scaling
When To Use WebSphere DataPower?
Ease of use is a pre-dominant consideration
- Simple experience of drop-in installation and admin-based configuration with no or minimal development required
You are transforming between XML-and-XML or XML-and-any other format
Your interaction patterns are relatively simple
Your mediation requirements are met by the existing DP mediations and minimal extensibility is needed
You are using XML-based or WS-Security extensively
You require use of advanced Web services standards
You need to minimize message latency when adding an ESB layer
You are doing extensive XML processing combined with high performance requirements
Your ESB must be in production very quickly |
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| mvic |
| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: WAS v/s WMB |
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Jedi
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 2080
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| bprasana wrote: |
| ... the customer wants to know why ... was chosen ... for Message Routing,Orchestration and Enrichment. |
Are these three terms your System Requirements? I hope not. Is there a little bit more detail you can share with us?
The above three terms look like they have been pulled from a marketing leaflet.
We don't do marketing here (much). We do technical stuff.
What technically is the Requirement? |
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:39 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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@bprasana
[Sarcasm]You are right. Message Broker offers no advantage over WAS. Go ahead and implement your routing, transformation, and enrichment in WAS.[/Sarcasm]
This must be a joke. You cannot be serious.
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| bprasana |
| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 179
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@mvic - The technical requirement is to modify a message from one custom format of XML to a industry standard XML format. ACORD in this case.
Hope that helps.
@lancelotlinc - I know WMB is better than WAS.How do i prove it? with respect to the above technical requirement? |
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| Mr Butcher |
| Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Padawan
Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 1716
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to prove it show your customer this thread 
or pay $$$ to get someone that knows both areas and can argue properly. it looks like you are not able to argue properly, and even if you return with answers you get from here to your customer, every new question from the customer will make you fail in the discussion.
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Regards, Butcher |
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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| bprasana wrote: |
@mvic - The technical requirement is to modify a message from one custom format of XML to a industry standard XML format. ACORD in this case.
Hope that helps.
@lancelotlinc - I know WMB is better than WAS.How do i prove it? with respect to the above technical requirement? |
I knew a guy once who used a hammer to change the oil in his car. The car didn't last very long after that. When someone asked him, why didn't he use the proper tool, he said the hammer was the only tool he liked, and didn't care to learn about any other tool.
If you have to prove to a bean counter that WMB is better for transforming messages than WAS, then your cause is doomed. I would post your resume quickly, so you don't go down with the company. Seems as through the people in power at your company no nothing of technology.
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| JSM |
| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:46 am Post subject: You can't really compare the two |
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Newbie
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 1
Location: Sarasota, FL
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WAS is like a very well-stocked workshop. There are materials and tools to build all kinds of products.
Broker is a large and complex tool, designed for a set of specific purposes (like mqjeff said, to provide ESB mediation and transformation services). It is robust, scalable, adaptable to many disparate systems, and extremely configurable.
Sure, you can build your own ESB-type tool in your WAS workshop, but unless a whole awful lot more resources are dedicated to it than I am sure your company is willing to provide, it will be inflexible, hard to scale, and provide limited functionality. It will also be proprietary code that your company would be required to maintain. |
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| mvic |
| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Jedi
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 2080
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| bprasana wrote: |
| The technical requirement is to modify a message from one custom format of XML to a industry standard XML format. |
Thank you, this is helpful.
Now, call your IBM sales person, and ask them what they would recommend for this requirement.
(Personally I would write a Java or C++ MQ application program if the above was my only requirement. But I imagine you want something more scalable/configurable than that?) |
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