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| sfari |
 Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:02 am Post subject: MQV6 Stop Channels, endmqm, make Backup, ... |
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Centurion
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 144
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Hi, we are making a daily backup of our MQ infrastructure running on Solaris. Since I have upgraded to MQ V6 we experience some problems. The backup process has the following order:
1. suspend qm from cluster
2. stop all running channel with force
3. endmqcsv
4. endmqm (mqlsr defined as objects under qmgr control [with 5.3 endmqslr])
5. backup filesystem
6. strmqm (mqlsr defined as objects under qmgr control [with 5.3 runmqslr])
7. strmqcsv
8. start all the channels from 2. again
9. resume qm to cluster
We have many Java applications which connect over TCP to the queue managers. The clients (eg. Message Driven Beans, running on Solaris, zLinux, AIX, Windows) start reconnecting as soon as they loose the connection to the qm.
What do you think is the described procedure correct? I am mainly asking because Since I have upgraded a test server to MQ V6.0.1.1 (from 5.3 CSD10) the endmqm process keeps sometimes hanging and we need to kill it manually. This never happened with 5.3. I know there was a bug with endmqm but with 6.0.1.1 it should be fixed. I need to have this problem solved soon. Any Idea what I could improove or try to do? Has anybody else had similar problems? |
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| PieterV |
| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:12 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 164
Location: Belgium
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I could be wrong, but i don't startup the command server manualy in version 6.
I only do strmqm qmgr and the command server is started as well.
To solve your problem you might could use endmqm -i |
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| sfari |
| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 144
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Sorry, I forgot to mention but I am already using endmqm -i and I still see the problem sporadically
I tried it, starting with strmqcsv is needed, endmqcsv seems to be optional. |
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| PaperHouse |
| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:57 am Post subject: backups |
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Newbie
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 8
Location: London
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I was wondering what the reasons for doing a daily backup were?
In my experience, it is sufficient to run a weekly saveqmgr and authorities save for all the QM objects. If you need to restore actual messages you should be able to recover those from the linear logs.
Backing up on a daily cycle sounds like overkill to me. |
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| PieterV |
| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:56 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 164
Location: Belgium
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but what if you lose your linear logs.
we backup /var/mqm at daily basis next to having those disks in raid 5 and having daily backups of the entire disks.
i don't think there exists overkill in having backups. |
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| sfari |
| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:02 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 144
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We have a similar setup with raids and make also a daily backup of /var/mqm. I agree with PieterV that this is not overkill.
@PieterV how are you stopping the queue manager? In a similar way I have described?
We have lots of distributed clients, thus we are stopping the channels because we can not stop the applications. Does my backup process make sense or is there something wrong? |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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Have you tried as step 2b to stop all apps that have a "bindings" connection with the qmgr before you shut it down. MDBs often prevent a graceful shutdown of the qmgr...
Enjoy 
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| sfari |
| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:00 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 144
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| All our clients connect in Client (TCP) mode. We use this setup exactly because we are not able to stop all the applications. |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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You might want to check after some time using dis chs(*) if some svrconn channels refuse to shut down and then use terminate instead of force...
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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| PieterV wrote: |
but what if you lose your linear logs.
we backup /var/mqm at daily basis next to having those disks in raid 5 and having daily backups of the entire disks.
i don't think there exists overkill in having backups. |
2 seconds after you start the QM back up, there is new data in your linear logs no longer captured in your backup.
With MQ messages constantly flying thru queues, what's so special about the time that you choose to shut down the QM and back it up? Is that a particular point in time that is magical to the applications as far as what messages are in the queues? MQSeries is not a database, its a transport system.
IMHO, daily backups of the MQ file systems is overkill. MS03 to save the QM defs, the security command to save all the security settings is enough, and can be run while the QM is up.
Point in time backups are pointless because you will never have the point in time that you really want, i.e. 1 nanosecond before you need the backup.
Regarind the original question, check out a thread in the Java Forum that I posted about this same problem (MDBs preventing QM shutdowns).
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Peter Potkay
Keep Calm and MQ On |
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| PieterV |
| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 164
Location: Belgium
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| sfari wrote: |
We have a similar setup with raids and make also a daily backup of /var/mqm. I agree with PieterV that this is not overkill.
@PieterV how are you stopping the queue manager? In a similar way I have described?
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It's always a discussion wether or not the backups are usefull, but when it occurs i rather have something to restart with then starting from zero.
I'm stopping with 'endmqm -i'. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| PieterV wrote: |
It's always a discussion wether or not the backups are usefull, but when it occurs i rather have something to restart with then starting from zero.
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But surely in this situation the backup are endless copies of each other, as I imagine your queue definitions don't change on a daily basis. I take the point of having a starting point, but I don't see why daily?
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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Because his queues are never empty?
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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Still pointless, especially because his queues have messages.
You take one of these full system backups at midnight.
Next day you need to restore at 10 AM. You do, and then hear one or both of the following:
Wah.  Where are all my messages that arrived from midnight to 10 AM?
-or-
Wah. I have a job that clears all my queues at the top of the hour, and now my app is blowing up because I have duplicate messages on the queue that I already processed.
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Peter Potkay
Keep Calm and MQ On |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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| PeterPotkay wrote: |
Still pointless, especially because his queues have messages.
You take one of these full system backups at midnight.
Next day you need to restore at 10 AM. You do, and then hear one or both of the following:
Wah. Where are all my messages that arrived from midnight to 10 AM?
-or-
Wah. I have a job that clears all my queues at the top of the hour, and now my app is blowing up because I have duplicate messages on the queue that I already processed. |
You don't have to convince me. But some managers still treat the point of failure recovery as a point in time recovery, just because this is what they really wish for. (DB abend with point in time recovery. Now if we could just recover the queues to the same point in time.... 
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