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| javagate |
 Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:15 am Post subject: How long do you think... |
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Disciple
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 159
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How long do you think it would take someone to 'master' MQSeries Administration on.
z/OS ?
Unix ?
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WebSphere Application Server 7.0 z/OS &
MQ 6.0. I work with WebSphere in the real world not in some IBM lab. |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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What does "master" mean?
Have an 80% probability of solving any given problem within an hour or two?
Have an 80% probability of preventing most problems before they arise?
Know where in the manuals to find the right piece of information?
Have hands-on experience with 80% of the functionality and management of MQ?
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I am *not* the model of the modern major general. |
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| Toronto_MQ |
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:15 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 10 Jul 2002
Posts: 263
Location: read my name
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| I would also add that that VERY largely depends on your expertise with the O/S. |
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| Mr Butcher |
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:26 am Post subject: |
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Padawan
Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 1716
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unless the council of masters made you a master you stay padavan! 
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Regards, Butcher |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:30 am Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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I think you mean padawan.
And I hope the bad haircut is optional.
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| javagate |
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 159
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I will be moving to another department to support WebSphere leaving MQ to someone else. It have been stated that they should be able to MASTER MQSeries in 6 months.
i.e... provide all support 100% for MQ admin. Build new envs, define all objects, fix all problems, etc.. some of these people are not even a z/os system programmer. I was thinking more like 6 years to master it. This also includes setting up a MQ monitor and understanding it.
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WebSphere Application Server 7.0 z/OS &
MQ 6.0. I work with WebSphere in the real world not in some IBM lab. |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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Well, if someone has stated that mastery must be achieved in x period of time... then clearly they have some idea of what mastery is... 
I think it will take 80% of the technical people out there longer than 6 months to be able to do all the things you are talking about.
I am not sure about 6 years, though. I think if a fairly competant person, who has already done some time of software administration (email, webserver, os) should be able to get 90% of the level of skills you're talking about within about a year of steady direct work. Just because there's a lot of reading that has to be done, and a lot of information to internalize and conceptualize. But add in another year for anything to do with z/OS. And another year after that if the person has never done anything with z/OS.
Monitoring, in particular, is a lengthy process. It takes a lot of back and forth with development and business teams to understand what represents an actual problem and what level of service is required for each type of problem.
I suspect, though, that all your management wants is someone who will be working completely independantly and taking ownership of the MQ platform within 6 months - and not have a complete mastery of the system.
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I am *not* the model of the modern major general. |
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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18-24 months is my guess if the person has a brain.....
depends how dirty they get their hands the first year. If they are handed a perfectly tuned MQ machine, it may go months before they have to deal with anything, and if they are not the type to nose around on their own, they'll never learn anything.
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Peter Potkay
Keep Calm and MQ On |
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| SAFraser |
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Shaman
Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 742
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
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Within 3 months, someone with OS experience should be able to take the pager and handle at least half the calls on his/her own (channels down, developers wanting their queues checked, and so forth).
To be pretty good, I agree with Peter -- 18 to 24 months.
I think you'll be still be doing level 2/3 support for a while, really. |
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| kevinf2349 |
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1311
Location: USA
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I think my answer would be...it depends:)
Are you talking about people that already have MQ knowledge but just on other platforms? Or are you talking about someone coming in totally green?
If they already have MQ experience just on other platforms then it shouldn't take too long to learn the differences with z/OS.
Setting up a new subsystem is one of those things that should not be attempted without the aid of a safety net  (or at least someone hand-holding for the first time). Fortunately (or maybe that should be UNFORTUNATELY) these needs tend to be few and far between.
Mostly the 'issues' with z/OS are often a case of simply changing the subsystem names and running sample jobs to create pagesets etc.
The z/OS manual is pretty good and a must read for new MQ bods.
If you want to take an existing sysprog and make them a MQ admin/sysprog then they will probably just need a good grounding in MQ. ...and the URL of this site of course If you are talking about someone fresh from college then you have a much longer training curve.
Just my 2 cents
Good luck with WAS |
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| hopsala |
| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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Guardian
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 960
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I generally agree with the 18-24 estimate for a decent MQ admin; I have raised several such admins myself and this is about the time it took the brighter ones to really get the hang of things. But I would add an interesting question here - how long does it take for a good WMQ designer to grow?
I'd estimate at least 3 years in a heavy-duty production environment, followed by about 2 years of working as a consultant/designer for a great number of different projects. This assuming previous knowledge of OS, communications, basic programming etc with the accumulated experience of several years in these fields.
Oh, and lest I forget - it takes a good clear mind. |
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| javagate |
| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:22 am Post subject: |
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Disciple
Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 159
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Pardon me while I go off a bit...
For instance when I took MQthere there was only 1 queue manager,
soon there was 6, then there was 12,soon multiple lpars, sysplexs and over 25 qmgrs. Now they needed to be tuned with message growth. Then Applications began using MQ as an offline use (i.e.store messages for long periods of time). This became very tricky to tune. I would be weary of hierarchy problems, such as application performance problems, waits and hangs. Such as CICS going SOS when MQ would takes a checkpoint. On z/OS the MQ Admin needs to know enough about CICS to know when that is where the problem is. And being able to recover MQ at a DR site and/or dealing with a RBA restart problem.
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WebSphere Application Server 7.0 z/OS &
MQ 6.0. I work with WebSphere in the real world not in some IBM lab. |
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| JT |
| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Padawan
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 1564
Location: Hartford, CT.
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| hopsala wrote: |
But I would add an interesting question here - how long does it take for a good WMQ designer to grow?
I'd estimate at least 3 years in a heavy-duty production environment, followed by about 2 years of working as a consultant/designer for a great number of different projects. |
Hmmmm.....
Judging from some of the threads I've seen on this site, some folks feel all it takes is passing the 296 - MQ Solutions Designer exam to start applying for those positions |
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| kevinf2349 |
| Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1311
Location: USA
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| how long does it take for a good WMQ designer to grow? |
Aren't they mythical?
Javagate....sounds like they will have their work cut out. We only have one production z/OS queue manager for appliccations (plus one for SDSF) so we don't tend to get into many of those issues you mention too often (we have had a couple though).
Who ever takes over should also be able to have athick skin and be able to prove it usually isn't MQ to blame. |
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