| Author |
Message
|
| RogerLacroix |
 Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:03 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Jedi Knight
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 3264
Location: London, ON Canada
|
| gbaddeley wrote: |
| Are there any other vendors that have scrapped PDFs for product manuals, in favor of an online / HTML presentation? |
I (Capitalware) used to only create manuals in HTML format but I got tried of managing the html pages, indexes and creating content in a text editor (rather than a word processor). All of the product manuals (except for 2) are now in PDF format. Only the User Guides for MQ Visual Edit and MQ Visual Browse are still in HTML format because those products use the Java Help component and it wants HTML files.
I use OpenOffice to create the manuals then click the little "Export as PDF" button and boom it is done. 
Plus I post all product manuals to my web site, so ftping 1 PDF file is far easier than ftping a bunch of html files, gif, etc..
Regards,
Roger Lacroix
Capitalware Inc.
_________________
Capitalware: Transforming tomorrow into today.
Connected to MQ!
Twitter |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| George Carey |
| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:04 am Post subject: car vs horse |
|
|
Knight
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 500
Location: DC
|
Your analogy of html Infocentre to PDFs as being a car to a horse,
| Quote: |
| "... But then, I'm a big advocate of the gasoline engine over a three-horse draycart as well. ..." |
while I am sure was not a gratuitous ad hominem disparagement ... seems off the mark.
I would say the more analagous comparison would be the teaching of spelling and reading to grade school kids using 'Flash Cards' as opposed to 'Phonetics and sentence diagrams'. One affords a quick superficial up take of familiar information while the other offers the ability to grasp new unfamiliar material and do so in depth.
Perhaps you were taught with the 'New Age' flash card techniques. I was not. And I will repeat, InfoCenter good for searching perhaps, not good for reading.
_________________
"Truth is ... grasping the virtually unconditioned",
Bernard F. Lonergan S.J.
(from book titled "Insight" subtitled "A Study of Human Understanding") |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| mqjeff |
| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:37 am Post subject: Re: car vs horse |
|
|
Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
|
| George Carey wrote: |
| And I will repeat, InfoCenter good for searching perhaps, not good for reading. |
I disagree with that in general. I will admit that the button to go to next page is in a slightly different place in the InfoCenter than in a PDF.
And it's got naught to do with any mechanism that I was taught by.
Nor was it an ad hominem attack. If I'd been meaning to do anything remotely like that, I'd have made implications about teaching old dogs new tricks - or talk about a workman placing blame on his tools
Neither of which I'm not doing here.
In all cases I am merely explaining my own world view - which is heavily shaped by the fact that over my more than 20 year career in IT (and more than 30 using computers at all), the only constant has been change and the only reasonable approach has seemed to be to run with the change, rather than fight against it. And if the current thing is not as useful as the old thing, make efforts to improve it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| George Carey |
| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:07 am Post subject: neither here |
|
|
Knight
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 500
Location: DC
|
| Quote: |
| "... Neither of which I'm not doing here. ..." |
Yes, I could tell!
Did you ever minor in journalism ... your writing technique and commentary seems remarkably similar to the fair and balanced 'Fox News' branch of journalistic style.
_________________
"Truth is ... grasping the virtually unconditioned",
Bernard F. Lonergan S.J.
(from book titled "Insight" subtitled "A Study of Human Understanding") |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| mqjeff |
| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:10 am Post subject: Re: neither here |
|
|
Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
|
| George Carey wrote: |
| Quote: |
| "... Neither of which I'm not doing here. ..." |
Yes, I could tell!
Did you ever minor in journalism ... your writing technique and commentary seems remarkably similar to the fair and balanced 'Fox News' branch of journalistic style. |
That was a typo. My fingers wrote what my brain did not mean.
I'm really not casting aspersions here, George. Just disagreeing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| zpat |
| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
|
I've always preferred IBM software (to other vendors) over many years because they have always had excellent manuals.
Studying them has taught me an awful lot about the internals of IBM software. Everything is there to be found.
I don't read Infocenters in the same way. I note that the IBM Redbooks remain available as PDFs.
You have to know something is there to search an online site for it, but for newbies it's perhaps less educational.
Certainly to compare Infocenters to PDFs in the way Jeff has is unfair. You can search PDFs - they are not antediluvian. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| George Carey |
| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:30 am Post subject: Enlightened |
|
|
Knight
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 500
Location: DC
|
Ah! Another enlightened soul, speaks at last!
Jeff, your comment:
| Quote: |
| George - your opinions do not match what I have been told by the people in charge of these things. |
Isn't that kind of like asking BP of what value are BlowOut protectors?
How about trying the customers input.
I'm just saying !!
_________________
"Truth is ... grasping the virtually unconditioned",
Bernard F. Lonergan S.J.
(from book titled "Insight" subtitled "A Study of Human Understanding") |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| mqjeff |
| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
|
| zpat wrote: |
| Certainly to compare Infocenters to PDFs in the way Jeff has is unfair. You can search PDFs - they are not antediluvian. |
I never said it was fair. Just my opinion. And I've not said they are unsearchable. Just unreliable because they are static and dead.
And I never said that customers weren't consulted, either. I merely explained what little I know about the reasons behind the decisions that were made. Or at least, what I was told about the reasons behind the decisions were made. Which may or may not be accurate.
regardless, endlessly repeating this discussion isn't going to change anything. There are any number of ways to raise this issue officially that could actually cause change. Quibbling here isn't one of those. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9475
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
|
I've heard that one of the driving forces for IBM to move away from the de facto industry document standard (pdf) was licensing with Adobe. At their best, PDF documents conformed to the pervasive "book" look and feel that we've grown accustomed to over the centuries.
The InfoCenter design reminds me of the early days of the Internet and (lack of) webpage design and navigation. For me, it seems the InfoCenter is a step backward in online tools.
I'm with George on this (as I duck under my desk). The InfoCenter is chock full of snippets. I find navigation tedious. Graphics are rudimentary.
I suspect that IBM has a bundle invested in the InfoCenter development tool. Perhaps at the next conference a torch-bearing mob (read: bof) can visit with IBM to discuss alternatives.
(still under my desk)
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| exerk |
| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
|
| bruce2359 wrote: |
| ...Perhaps at the next conference a torch-bearing mob (read: bof) can visit with IBM to discuss alternatives... |
Bagsy the pitchfork
EDIT: In all seriousness I prefer the tactility of paper, and a pdf (if small enough) is easier to print...
_________________
It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20763
Location: LI,NY
|
Split the topic and moved to general discussion. 
_________________
MQ & Broker admin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| zpat |
| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
|
I remember being asked (by the IBM documentation group) about the PDFs some years back at Hursley and I did tell them that I preferred that format.
Also that it would be even better with more use of colour. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| camauz |
| Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Acolyte
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 52
Location: Mojan, Italy
|
I must start with a citation: "Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets". It's not mine, but it's great.
PDF is a de facto standard: books, newspapers, articles, business documents are produced and distributed using PDF format.
Many times I do need off-line reading.
This is my experience with InfoCenter installation:
1. I have to download the zip file (262402 KB)
2. I have to expand the zip file (310 MB, 5183 files, 653 folders for version 7.0.1 2010-08-03)
3. I have to read a welcome page and discover "The WebSphere MQ Information Center runs within an Eclipse-based framework, commonly known as the help system. The Eclipse help system comprises a number of plugins that contain the code for different components of the help system, including a search engine and a web server. When Eclipse is launched, these plugins combine to form the help system framework."
3b. are you joking? Should I use the Eclipse elephant to read a document?! 
4. I must follow the instructions: how to start-up the reader (double click on help_cd_start.bat, but help_start.bat works as well)
5. a new tab/window is activated in the browser and voilà , I'm reading a translated version...  sorry, I want the English one
6. coming back to the welcome page, I have discovered the InfoCenter select the locale of my PC, sorry but I can not switch locale just because I need to access the real UNTRASLATED info
7. coming back to the welcome page, there is a different way to execute it: "When the information center is launched in its webserver format (see below, IC_start) it presents the information in the language selected in your browser (if the language is available). You can change your
browser's language at any time while it is running"
8. I'm switching the default language (Internet Explorer), starting the InfoCenter using IC_Start.bat
9. GOT IT!!! With just a 134 MB of RAM (!), running a Java virtual machine, I am able to see the full English official documentation
10. After every reading I have to switch my browser preferred language back because some corporate applications does not work properly if I use English as the primary language.
IMHO:
1. usabilibity: poor
2. video output quality: poor (do you remember the syntax diagram of the 370 age? ---|||<<<--->>>  )
3. print quality: very poor (huge fonts, bad formatting, no page number)
4. upgrade: every time I have to download the full bundle with all (how many?) the translated versions
I am suspecting someone will sell this change as a feature, but I think it's a step back.
Ch. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| anveshita |
| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
Master
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 254
Location: Jambudweepam
|
Can we have a poll and hopefully some IBM folks realize removing PDFs is not a good idea?
As for me, I find PDFs a better way to read books. I could highlight, make notes, put it on my smartphone and read it whenever I feel like reading it
After posting I realized it was a old thread, but landed on this via another link. But well it is still valid. Is n't it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| zpat |
| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
|
I have to agree.
However if you can print what you want, there is a free printer driver that generates a PDF file (PDFCreator). Better than nothing.
IBM - how about doing some Kindle editions?....  There is a kindle application for just about everything. Much better than trying to read an A4 PDF through a tiny window anyway. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
