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IIB 10 questions (admin ui, debuggging)

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grasher134

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:31 am Post subject: IIB 10 questions (admin ui, debuggging)

Acolyte

Joined: 22 Oct 2014
Posts: 62

I've been looking at the recent changes, brought to us by IIB 10. Seems that they are trying to force people to use their awful WebUI.
It doesn't bother me much if we are talking about administration of production server. You rarely change something there.
But dev machine and test server is completely another thing. You have to add, edit, delete lots of properties. Read traces, add db connections and so on..

At least some of these functions were covered in MQ Explorer previously. Now we HAVE to use console, to type these commands over and over again. I know some Linux/Aix lovers that are quite happy with this approach, but I'm not that kind of guy. If I can do something with 1-2 mouse-clicks - I'd better do it that way.

I made some little program, using Visual Studio, that can do some basic tasks with broker, using cmd + mqsiprofile. But it is not so elegant solution, as I have to parse the response from broker as String.
Is there any other API I can use in my program, in order to make my life a little easier? For example I want to implement mqsireadproperties, but it returns too much text to parse. If it would return some xml/json, it would be great.

Second question is about debugging. As I know they deleted "Test..." button from message flow. And this new message recording thing doesn't want to work with debugging turned on. Is there any other mean, I can achieve step by step code debugging now?

Sorry for my English.

Vitor

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:39 am Post subject: Re: IIB 10 questions (admin ui, debuggging)

Grand High Poobah

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA

grasher134 wrote:

At least some of these functions were covered in MQ Explorer previously. Now we HAVE to use console, to type these commands over and over again. I know some Linux/Aix lovers that are quite happy with this approach

Absolutely. Haven't used the MB Explorer in years.

grasher134 wrote:

Is there any other API I can use in my program, in order to make my life a little easier? For example I want to implement mqsireadproperties, but it returns too much text to parse. If it would return some xml/json, it would be great.

If there isn't (and I'm not aware of one) sounds like an RFE candidate to me.

grasher134 wrote:

And this new message recording thing doesn't want to work with debugging turned on. Is there any other mean, I can achieve step by step code debugging now?

I think that's supposed to be working; what the software wants to do is irrelevant. Sounds like a PMR to me. Or update to the latest v10.
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fjb_saper

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:43 am Post subject: Re: IIB 10 questions (admin ui, debuggging)

Grand High Poobah

Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY

grasher134 wrote:

You are sadly mistaken. The test button has not been deleted. You just need to enable it. In the toolkit go to preferences, IIB, debug and check out the options.
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MQ & Broker admin

grasher134

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:03 am Post subject: Re: IIB 10 questions (admin ui, debuggging)

Acolyte

Joined: 22 Oct 2014
Posts: 62

fjb_saper wrote:

You are sadly mistaken. The test button has not been deleted. You just need to enable it. In the toolkit go to preferences, IIB, debug and check out the options.

Couldn't find it there.. I have to go home now, will continue to look for it tomorrow. In case of misunderstanding I meant the internal debug tool used in 9.0. You have to click on the input node(HTTP, MQ, SOAP) with RMB and then select "Test...".

fjb_saper

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:08 am Post subject: Re: IIB 10 questions (admin ui, debuggging)

Grand High Poobah

Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY

grasher134 wrote:

fjb_saper wrote:

You are sadly mistaken. The test button has not been deleted. You just need to enable it. In the toolkit go to preferences, IIB, debug and check out the options.

Yes it is in the Toolkit under Preferences, Integration, Testing Client... and you need to enable it. It is disabled by default.

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zpat

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:57 am Post subject:

Jedi Council

Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK

Can't you use the CMP API for all the admin gui stuff?

I agree though, that IBM have taken away IBX explorer features and not provided an adequate replacement.

Traditionally, IBM didn't go out of their way to annoy long-term, high-spending customers.

I can't say I feel very happy about IIB 10 in this respect though. I've made this point to the labs on more than one occasion, but I get the feeling they are chasing new sales more than they are keeping me happy.

The trouble is that even existing customers have to keep "selling" these IBM products internally against open source alternatives.
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Well, I don't think there is any question about it. It can only be attributable to human error. This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error.

mqjeff

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:59 am Post subject:

Grand Master

Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447

The development and maintenance efforts of Eclipse plugins is significantly higher than that of Web based tools.

And it's much easier to find developers who want to build Web tools than those who want to build Eclipse plugins...
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Vitor

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:13 am Post subject:

Grand High Poobah

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA

mqjeff wrote:

And it's much easier to find developers who want to build Web tools than those who want to build Eclipse plugins...

It's also much easier to integrate something that's a web based gui into a larger, dashboard style gui that administers many products.
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence.

smdavies99

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:43 am Post subject:

Jedi Council

Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.

I agree with the comments about the usability of the IIB10 WebAdmin. Ugh!

I think that this is just a placeholder until it is replaced with something even worse like the WAS Admin Console.

But with the impending divorce of IIB from MQ (SOAP & HTTP Rule OK) the old admin tool had to go.

I find most Web Based Admin tools horrible from a UI and importantly a Usability perspective. At the moment I'm having to use one with a huge .Net backend that consumes RAM like it was going out of use tomorrow. One client can easily grow to 1.5Gb.
MS does not help the cause with Tiles and Charms and....

Sigh. Perhaps it is time for me to retire. Then I won't have to worry about this sort of stuff again.
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WMQ User since 1999
MQSI/WBI/WMB/'Thingy' User since 2002
Linux user since 1995

Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions.

grasher134

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: IIB 10 questions (admin ui, debuggging)

Acolyte

Joined: 22 Oct 2014
Posts: 62

fjb_saper wrote:

Yes it is in the Toolkit under Preferences, Integration, Testing Client... and you need to enable it. It is disabled by default.

I was tired yesterday. I found it, thank you. 1 problem less, more to go.

Vitor wrote:

If there isn't (and I'm not aware of one) sounds like an RFE candidate to me.

Any point of doing that? Are they looking through them? After working with their CS I doubt it..
But I'll still open one. Just in case.

zpat wrote:

Can't you use the CMP API for all the admin gui stuff?

Oh, haven't heard about it. It is only Java though, but still.. Better than nothing.

zpat

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:12 am Post subject:

Jedi Council

Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK

I don't mind switching to a web admin GUI if it includes all the IBX function.

What I object to is losing GUI function, that I currently use.

For example I solved a IIB 9 issue today, by using IBX to examine the properties of an EG.

Doing so I quickly spotted a JVM parameter that shouldn't have been there.

Using the command line is much less convenient and also not available to developers since most mqsi commands need admin rights.

Command lines are fine for scripts - they are not meant for humans!
_________________
Well, I don't think there is any question about it. It can only be attributable to human error. This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error.

grasher134

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:44 am Post subject:

Acolyte

Joined: 22 Oct 2014
Posts: 62

zpat wrote:

I highlighted some major points, in which I completely agree with you.

Unfortunately, command line will live as long as there are Linux/Unix users.. And they are not going anywhere anytime soon.

I was on IBM's presentation 1 week earlier. Guy said "And for those miserable people, who are still on Windows...". Not the exact quote, but the meaning stays the same.

zpat

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:47 am Post subject:

Jedi Council

Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK

I don't mind having both command and GUI.

I would prefer them both to cover all options though.

Can I suggest you join the IIB Beta program and feedback your comments to IBM, or open a RFE on this subject?
_________________
Well, I don't think there is any question about it. It can only be attributable to human error. This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error.

Vitor

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:29 am Post subject: Re: IIB 10 questions (admin ui, debuggging)

Grand High Poobah

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA

grasher134 wrote:

Any point of doing that? Are they looking through them? After working with their CS I doubt it..

That's slightly unfair as you're talking about 2 different areas. Yes, the RFEs are reviewed and yes, there is a point in doing it.

grasher134 wrote:

But I'll still open one. Just in case.

Points to note:

- post the link to your RFE here are other relevant places after you open it. The best way for them to rate how many people agree your RFE is a good idea is the number of votes it gets
- like all products, IIB has a delivery cadence. The fact that your RFE (having made the cut) doesn't turn up in the next fix pack doesn't mean it won't turn up in a fix pack
- an RFE wishing things went back to the way they were will not succeed in all probability. So don't raise an RFE "I use the MB Explorer a lot and it should be put back"; raise one explaining what functionality / use cases have been lost

grasher134 wrote:

zpat wrote:

Can't you use the CMP API for all the admin gui stuff?

Oh, haven't heard about it. It is only Java though, but still.. Better than nothing.

[/quote]

It's much better than nothing; we use it a lot. Yes, it's only Java but it's simple enough even I mostly understand how it works and my minions had no trouble coding for it.

(The bulk of our automated administration is still performed via the command line and script, because I'm in charge of the standards & designs. But if you've got a Java based tool, it makes no sense to drop out into a command shell)

We've also had some success (experimentally) using the REST APIs in our control dashboards.
_________________
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Insanity is the best defence.

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