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| OzgurAydin |
 Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:15 am Post subject: Multi Instance Queue Manager |
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Apprentice
Joined: 08 Sep 2008
Posts: 27
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Hi,
We have this scenario, we want to establish a Multı Instance Queue Manager Cluster with two windows side Queue Managers one active one stand by. Message will come through the means of a mainframe Queue Manager. Is it possible to have such a design ? I was told that Multı Instance Queue Managers does not support the mainframe side ? How can I possibly set up a Queue Manager on the mainframe side to ssend messages to the Multı Instance Queue Manager farm ?
Thankyou. |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Multi Instance Queue Manager |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| ...we want to establish a Multı Instance Queue Manager Cluster with two windows side Queue Managers one active one stand by... |
Please clarify this statement - do you mean two Windows-based Multi-Instance queue managers, or one Multi-Instance Windows-based queue manager in a cluster?
| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| ...Message will come through the means of a mainframe Queue Manager. Is it possible to have such a design ? |
Shouldn't be a problem if it's at V7.1 or above...
| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| I was told that Multı Instance Queue Managers does not support the mainframe side ? |
There is no equivalent of Multi-Instance on z/OS (a QSG is not an analogue in my view), but that does not stop a z/OS queue manager 'talking' to a distributed-platform Multi-Instance queue manager...
| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| ...How can I possibly set up a Queue Manager on the mainframe side to send messages to the Multı Instance Queue Manager farm ? |
The same way as you would any connection to a Multi-Instance queue manager.
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:20 am Post subject: Re: Multi Instance Queue Manager |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| exerk wrote: |
| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| I was told that Multı Instance Queue Managers does not support the mainframe side ? |
There is no equivalent of Multi-Instance on z/OS (a QSG is not an analogue in my view)... |
Allow me to disagree.
"Multi-instance" provides a functionality. That functionality is supported on z/OS.
It is technically true that z/OS and IBM MQ for z/os does not support "Multi-instance." But, the functionality that Multi-instance offers is supported on z/OS through Parallel Sysplex and QSG's.
The functionality is "failover." With QSG's, a message put to a queue is put to the CF, where the message is visible to all members of the same QSG. As such, if the consuming app (or qmgr or z/OS instance or server) fails, the message will be consumed by another instance.
Parallel Sysplex and QSG's have been available since the 1990's, and support up to 32 z/OS images - far more than supported on midrange platforms.
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:34 am Post subject: Re: Multi Instance Queue Manager |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| bruce2359 wrote: |
| exerk wrote: |
| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| I was told that Multı Instance Queue Managers does not support the mainframe side ? |
There is no equivalent of Multi-Instance on z/OS (a QSG is not an analogue in my view)... |
Allow me to disagree.
"Multi-instance" provides a functionality. That functionality is supported on z/OS. |
Wow, that hair's split thin...... 
@bruce2359 - a QSG provides the same functionality is such a different way that describing it as analogous to multi-instance is confusing, especially for someone reading this forum who doesn't know z/OS that well but needs to talk to a z/OS sys prog.
@exerk - a QSG is absolutely an analogue to a distributed multi-instance queue manager. It doesn't work in anything like the same way, and provides many more functions than MI but that's because z/OS is intrinsically more feature rich and just plain better than distributed platforms.
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Multi Instance Queue Manager |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| we want to establish a Multı Instance Queue Manager Cluster with two windows side Queue Managers one active one stand by. |
Like my worthy associate, could you rephrase and expand on that topology?
| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| I was told that Multı Instance Queue Managers does not support the mainframe side ? |
Ask whoever told you that to defend the statement. You can't use a multi-instance queue manager on z/OS (because you don't need to - the rather abstract debate above refers) but MI is just a way of providing a highly available queue manager; there's no difference in usage (like how you connect to it) between a distributed queue manager protected by MI, a distributed queue manager that doesn't use MI and a z/OS queue manager. Please post whatever answer comes back on "multi instances queue managers do not support the mainframe side" so we can pick holes in it.
Or better still, get the originator of that assertion to post on this thread so we can make fun of them directly.
(I have 5 conference calls back to back this morning, and the site is out of  . Security are enforcing a 10 yard exclusion zone around my desk. A HAZMAT team will be here in 15 minutes to start mopping up the sarcasm and bitterness.)
| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| How can I possibly set up a Queue Manager on the mainframe side to ssend messages to the Multı Instance Queue Manager farm ? |
| exerk wrote: |
The same way as you would any connection to a Multi-Instance queue manager. |
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:57 am Post subject: Re: Multi Instance Queue Manager |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| Vitor wrote: |
Wow, that hair's split thin...... |
Of course.
If the post had lamented that midrange platforms don't support QSG's, we'd be at the same point, namely: what function are you trying to implement, vs. what product name are you trying to implement.
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I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:02 am Post subject: Re: Multi Instance Queue Manager |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| Vitor wrote: |
| @exerk - a QSG is absolutely an analogue to a distributed multi-instance queue manager... |
Taking my life into my hands here - but I still disagree; MI is poor-man's HA and a way to reduce the complexity of having the likes of MSCS/Veritas et al. Is a tractor analogous to a tank? (probably yes where I live!).
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:08 am Post subject: Re: Multi Instance Queue Manager |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| exerk wrote: |
| Vitor wrote: |
| @exerk - a QSG is absolutely an analogue to a distributed multi-instance queue manager... |
Taking my life into my hands here - but I still disagree; MI is poor-man's HA and a way to reduce the complexity of having the likes of MSCS/Veritas et al. Is a tractor analogous to a tank? (probably yes where I live!). |
Your argument is more about complexity, and not functionality. I read the OP as being about function.
In the interest of clarity, related questions:
Can a midrange qmgr be a member of a QSG? No.
Can a z/OS qmgr be a partner in an midrange MI configuration? No.
Can a z/OS qmgr connect via channels to a qmgr that in an MI configuration? Yes.
Can a midrange qmgr that is in an MI configuration connect via channels to a qmgr that is a member of a z/OS QSG? Yes.
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| OzgurAydin |
| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:04 am Post subject: Re: Multi Instance Queue Manager |
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Apprentice
Joined: 08 Sep 2008
Posts: 27
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| exerk wrote: |
| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| ...we want to establish a Multı Instance Queue Manager Cluster with two windows side Queue Managers one active one stand by... |
Please clarify this statement - do you mean two Windows-based Multi-Instance queue managers, or one Multi-Instance Windows-based queue manager in a cluster?
Actually I mean two Windows-based MultiInstance Queue Managers
| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| ...Message will come through the means of a mainframe Queue Manager. Is it possible to have such a design ? |
Shouldn't be a problem if it's at V7.1 or above...
| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| I was told that Multı Instance Queue Managers does not support the mainframe side ? |
There is no equivalent of Multi-Instance on z/OS (a QSG is not an analogue in my view), but that does not stop a z/OS queue manager 'talking' to a distributed-platform Multi-Instance queue manager...
| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| ...How can I possibly set up a Queue Manager on the mainframe side to send messages to the Multı Instance Queue Manager farm ? |
The same way as you would any connection to a Multi-Instance queue manager. |
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| OzgurAydin |
| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:13 am Post subject: MultiInstance Queue Manager |
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Apprentice
Joined: 08 Sep 2008
Posts: 27
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bruce2359,
I must thank you this was the answer to my question actually.
'Can a z/OS qmgr connect via channels to a qmgr that in an MI configuration? Yes.'
'Can a midrange qmgr that is in an MI configuration connect via channels to a qmgr that is a member of a z/OS QSG? Yes.'
Thank you very much.
But nevertheless how is the qmgr on z/OS to be configured to connect to the qmgrs in the MI configuration ? Do I have to define two connection names for the sender channel ? Will one of them only be active during day time ? Will the passive qmgr in the MI configuration be aware of this and will the z/OS qmgr sender channel switch automatically when there is an outage ?
My regards. |
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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The answer is really no different from connecting any other MQ QMGR to a QMGR in an MSCS configuration (or any client for that matter)
In an active/passive setup you have a 'floating IP' address that moves with the QMGR when it moves between the MSCS Nodes.
This IP address is what the Mainframe QMGR CONNNAME is configured to connect to. Then it does not matter which node the queue manager is running on.
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Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions. |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| But nevertheless how is the qmgr on z/OS to be configured to connect to the qmgrs in the MI configuration ? |
Comma-separated IP addresses and IP Ports, as per the KC.
| smdavies99 wrote: |
| The answer is really no different from connecting any other MQ QMGR to a QMGR in an MSCS configuration (or any client for that matter) |
MI and MSCS are different animals 
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:45 am Post subject: Re: MultiInstance Queue Manager |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| how is the qmgr on z/OS to be configured to connect to the qmgrs in the MI configuration ? |
The same as if it was connecting to a non-MI queue manager, or if a distributed queue manager was connecting to an MI queue manager. Start here and keep reading.
| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| Do I have to define two connection names for the sender channel ? |
Yes. See the InfoCenter for details.
| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| Will one of them only be active during day time ? |
Unless it crashes, and then the other one becomes active.
| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| Will the passive qmgr in the MI configuration be aware of this |
Aware how?
| OzgurAydin wrote: |
| will the z/OS qmgr sender channel switch automatically when there is an outage ? |
That's why you have 2 connection names. See the InfoCentre for details.
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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