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| goodwill |
 Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:06 am Post subject: MQ client code |
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Apprentice
Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Posts: 31
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| This is not so urgent, I think. Redistribution of the MQ client code appears to be by arrangement, and is not uncommonly done commercially. IBM appear to be primarily concerned to know the who and why in this respect. Should our little tool surface upon the IBM radar, we will gladly discuss it with them and comply with whatever terms they see fit. |
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| zpat |
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:27 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5849
Location: UK
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I think MarkT is operating an IBM radar!!
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I did find my copy went into a loop - or at least consumed all of one CPU on my laptop until I ended the process.
Do you want any diagnostics on this - how would I capture them? |
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| goodwill |
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:31 am Post subject: |
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Apprentice
Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Posts: 31
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| Hi zpat. If there is an error, there should be a red 'light' appear in the bottom right hand corner of the gui. If so, please 'press' the light to see the stacktrace and send to mqsysadmin@gmail.com. Be sure to give it a few moments though if your network is of any size. I allocated 24 threads to it. Perhaps a bit overdone. |
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| markt |
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Knight
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 504
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| I am not going to discuss the COMMERCIAL terms under which client code can be redistributed. But be aware that they exist. It it YOUR responsibility to get IBM's agreement to redistribute licensed code - just because it does not cost money for end-users does not mean there is no license. And for redistribution, there are definitely additional terms which apply. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:58 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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Let's be clear.
You have legally obtained the WebSphere MQ client code. As part of that process, you legally agreed to a license that includes terms and conditions for redistribution.
So if you choose not to honor that agreement, you can be held legally responsible. |
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| goodwill |
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:42 am Post subject: MQ client code |
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Apprentice
Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Posts: 31
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I do not wish to get into a legal argument - we are none of us lawyers. The terms are far from clear in fact.
Apparently, they allow for the user to "1) use the Program up to the level of use specified in the PoE and 2) make and install copies, including a backup copy, to support such use." The PoE is "evidence of Your authorization to use a Program at a specified level. That level may be measured, for example, by the number of processors or users." As to the number of users - the software is not restricted, providing "You will ensure that anyone who uses the Program (accessed either locally or remotely) does so only for Your authorized use and complies with the terms of this Agreement." Add to this the fact that invariably each and every user of this tool is authorised to administer a licensed MQ product, and we are looking at various shades of grey here. The license perhaps allows, but does not appear to insist on the strictest interpretation. It is perhaps a question of policy, ie, maintaining conrol of the product. Understandable. I will find out.
What IS clear is that I am to "reproduce all copyright notices and all other legends of ownership on each copy, or partial copy, of the Program." You will find that under com.ibm.mq directory in the source package.
Again, if my interpretation is naive, and IBM care to officially correct me on this, I am happy to comply.
Don't get me wrong, I hear your concern, and I too am a friend of IBM. At this stage I am still gauging interest in the tool. If it looks like it has legs, I will certainly approach IBM and seek their blessing, or find a workaround.
Last edited by goodwill on Wed May 30, 2012 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| markt |
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Knight
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 504
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Consider yourself corrected. The license terms do not permit redistribution in 3rd party products, whether or not those products are free.
I repeat that it is YOUR responsibility to gain permission BEFORE doing this. |
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| goodwill |
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:30 am Post subject: MQ Client code |
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Apprentice
Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Posts: 31
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| Ok lets take this offline. I will attempt to track down the relevant body within IBM, until then I intend to leave things as they are. Mark, if you believe I err in this, and you seriously have the authority to pursue this matter on behalf of IBM, please email mqsysadmin@gmail.com with an IBM letterhead stating your division, role, and the nature of your authority, and you will have no further quibble from me. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9405
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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It's so well-documented, and so easy to search for... The WMQ Client is Category-3. From the Cat-3 webpage:
Category 3 - Product Extensions SupportPacs
SupportPacs in this category are available at no charge to all licensed users of the WebSphere MQ and MQSeries products on the platforms specified in the SupportPac description. They are supplied under the standard terms and conditions of the IBM International Program License Agreement (IPLA) and of the associated License Information and other documentation, and provide a defect correction entitlement for those licensed users entitled to service for WebSphere MQ family products. Service is available for this SupportPac for as long as the WebSphere MQ product with which the SupportPac is to be used is generally supported by IBM. In addition, IBM reserves the right to discontinue service on this SupportPac when it is withdrawn from marketing by IBM.
Extracted from the IPLA,
"You may not 1) use, copy, modify, or distribute the Program except as provided in this Agreement; 2) reverse assemble, reverse compile, or otherwise translate the Program except as specifically permitted by law without the possibility of contractual waiver; or 3) sublicense, rent, or lease the Program."
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| zpat |
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5849
Location: UK
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I don't see the big deal here.
Just publish the URL of where to download the MQ client from and those people that don't have it installed can do so.
Most people interested in this tool will have MQ client installed already and you can either ask them to configure the JAR files location. or copy the JAR files locally (much as I hate doing this).
If you have particular MQ Jar version dependencies, these should be stated. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9405
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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I'd suggest that you search google for software piracy. Secondly, I'd suggest that you visit with a lawyer to determine your rights, responsibilities and liabilities.
As a consultant, I would not recommend a software solution that contained or required software that was not expressly licensed to the client. This would expose the client (and likely me) to needless litigation.
And, just because you can do something (like distribute vendor software for which you have no license to do so), doesn't mean you should do it.
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| goodwill |
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 8:52 am Post subject: MQ Client code |
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Apprentice
Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Posts: 31
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So where to start. The com.ibm.mq libraries are 2005 and v5.3 - perhaps the terms are more explicit. I'll be damned if I can even find a eula for them. Certainly nothing in the old ms0b support pac.
EDIT: FYI copies of licensing agreements past and present can be found at:
http://www-03.ibm.com/software/sla/sladb.nsf/search/
Last edited by goodwill on Wed May 30, 2012 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| goodwill |
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 9:38 am Post subject: MQ Client Code |
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Apprentice
Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Posts: 31
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| Ok, so you can stop circling for a bit. This will take time to work out. As I said, I will approach IBM and discuss it with them. If I need to piggyback on an MQ client install, that's not the end of the world. But as it is 3:36am here I am going to bed. Enjoy your evening, be good to your families. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:12 am Post subject: Re: MQ Client code |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9405
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| goodwill wrote: |
| The com.ibm.mq libraries are 2005 and v5.3. I'll be damned if I can even find a eula for them. Certainly nothing in the old ms0b support pac. |
You are picking nits. You have been told that re-distributing IBM software violates license. You can no longer play the childish game of pretending that you don't know.
In court, if your business survives long enough, you would be asked if IBM or anyone with experience with IBM licenses, had advised you that re-distribution of software was a violation of license. What would you say?
Common sense, if you have that, and good business practice, would dictate that you follow any reasonably current IPLA ('L' stands for Licensed). Or, in the alternative, contact IBM or a lawyer.
And, you are not an end-user. You are acting as a re-distributor.
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9405
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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Did you even bother to search google? Most end-of-support announcements include this type of narrative:
| Quote: |
Effective May 14, 2004, IBM will withdraw from marketing the products listed in the Software withdrawals section and licensed under the IBM International Program License Agreement.
On or after May 14, 2004, you can no longer obtain the withdrawn products directly from IBM. They may be obtained on an as-available basis through IBM authorized remarketers. |
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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