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| PeterPotkay |
 Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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| mqjeff wrote: |
| you should be able to use mqoutput to write to a qalias that resolves to a topic? |
But having to predefine alias queue won't scale well if your dealing with lots of topics coming and going on the fly.
Is WMB 6.1.0.9 capable of doing Pub Sub with an MQ 7.0.1.4 Queue Manager to the same capacity as a regular MQ 7.0.1.4 app? That is, can WMB 6.1.0.9 open topic objects directly and put to topics, without having to use the Alias queue "trick"? Can a WMB 6.1.0.9 message flow issue the MQSUB MQAPI verb?
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Peter Potkay
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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No currently shipping version of Broker has any built in support for the MQSUB api call or the MQSUBR call.
I haven't done any extensive work with Pub/Sub using MQ v7 pub/sub engine from Broker v6.1. From what i recall there is a reasonable amount of documentation on how the two engines coexist or do not coexist.
You also need to make ABSOLUTELY SURE you are at a FixPack level of 6.1 that SUPPORTS running on MQ v7. Not all FixPack levels of 6.1 do this. If you're not using a supported level, you are have allocated yourself at least three  |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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I am a little bit surprised. I would have thought that in this particular circumstance, you'd keep the RFH2 header and use pub/sub just like you did before, except that now the QMGR is doing it instead of the broker... and the publication gets sent to the SYSTEM.BROKER.DEFAULT.STREAM... AND you have to take care of all the authorization stuff... (or not if your user if is in the mqm group)... You might also want to look at how to set up alternate streams in V7 pub/sub.
For subscription, just send the the message with the corresponding RFH2 to the SYSTEM.BROKER.CONTROL.QUEUE. Nothing has changed there, except for the authorization model, right? The same counts for the publication. So no need to set up all the fancy aliases and topics as you can still access them dynamically.
The setup of topic objects and aliases pointing to them, I look at as a convenience, allowing you to post a message to a queue (topic alias) and have it be published without the need to use an RFH header or using a pub/sub JMS/XMS type message. It should also allow you a different slant on the authorization model...
As Jeff said you need to go through the manual and experiment strictly with the pub/sub migration steps. We faltered with the mqsimigratecomponents -1 and -2 as we do not plan to upgrade our DB2 to 9.1
It may also have other advantages to be able to easily fall back onto a prior version of the broker (migration will use administrative subscriptions (mqsc script) and creating a V7 broker with redeploy). So for a period of time there will be 2 versions of the broker on top of the same qmgr. Yes you can only run one at a time... and once we are satisfied with V7 of the broker we can remove the V6 version entirely, keeping the qmgr...
Hope this helps some 
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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So for a period of time there will be 2 versions of the broker on top of the same qmgr.
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I'd be very cautious with this.
You might have some V6.1 configmgr to broker messages lying around when you switch versions. These might confuse the hell out of the poor darling.  
I'm planning the move to V7 at my site and we are going to be using separate QMGRS just to ensure clarity of operation. I'm also taking the opportunity to clean up the qmgr. Remove unused objects, apply some logfile tuning etc etc. The current QMGR was created by a contractor and got just about everything that could go wrong wrong, especially the CCSID and qmgr maxmsglen(2mb). At least they didn't use the 'default configuration' as created by the toolkit wizard.. Yes I have seen that in production use at more than one site.
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:52 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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This thread started with finding out about WMB 6.1 Pub/Subbing with WMQ 7. I'm sure WMB 7 is nice and all, but WMB 6.1 is still going to be supported for years. So....
If you are at the latest versions of WMB 6.1 and WMQ 7.0.1, and the WMB Broker's psmode = disabled, and the WMQ Queue Manager psmode = enabled, can your message flows pub and sub with the MQ7 Pub Sub engine on that QM? If yes, can it be done without creating Alias queues for each topic?
Assume no migration - new Queue Manager and Broker created at WMQ 7.0.1.4 and WMB 6.1.0.9.
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Peter Potkay
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:23 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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| PeterPotkay wrote: |
If you are at the latest versions of WMB 6.1 and WMQ 7.0.1, and the WMB Broker's psmode = disabled, and the WMQ Queue Manager psmode = enabled, can your message flows pub and sub with the MQ7 Pub Sub engine on that QM? If yes, can it be done without creating Alias queues for each topic?
Assume no migration - new Queue Manager and Broker created at WMQ 7.0.1.4 and WMB 6.1.0.9. |
So what have you all tried? Just for fun create a qmgr @ 7.0.1.4 psmode(enabled) and subscribe using RFHUtil(c) and publish using RFHUtil(c) and what was the result? Check as well the property control attribute on the queues used.
Have fun
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:25 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 22 Mar 2010
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Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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| PeterPotkay wrote: |
| I'm sure WMB 7 is nice and all, but WMB 6.1 is still going to be supported for years. |
2007 + 5 years = 2012. That is next year. While no announcements have been made with regard to end of life, WMB v8 will be arriving soon and thats two major generations out from WMB 6.1. Therefore, I would not expect WMB 6.anything to last more than a few more months (12 to 18 ). I'm just saying.
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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| lancelotlinc wrote: |
| PeterPotkay wrote: |
| I'm sure WMB 7 is nice and all, but WMB 6.1 is still going to be supported for years. |
2007 + 5 years = 2012. That is next year. While no announcements have been made with regard to end of life, WMB v8 will be arriving soon and thats two major generations out from WMB 6.1. Therefore, I would not expect WMB 6.anything to last more than a few more months (12 to 18 ). I'm just saying. |
http://www-01.ibm.com/software/websphere/support/lifecycle/
2008 + 5 years = 2013
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Peter Potkay
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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| fjb_saper wrote: |
| PeterPotkay wrote: |
If you are at the latest versions of WMB 6.1 and WMQ 7.0.1, and the WMB Broker's psmode = disabled, and the WMQ Queue Manager psmode = enabled, can your message flows pub and sub with the MQ7 Pub Sub engine on that QM? If yes, can it be done without creating Alias queues for each topic?
Assume no migration - new Queue Manager and Broker created at WMQ 7.0.1.4 and WMB 6.1.0.9. |
So what have you all tried? Just for fun create a qmgr @ 7.0.1.4 psmode(enabled) and subscribe using RFHUtil(c) and publish using RFHUtil(c) and what was the result? Check as well the property control attribute on the queues used.
Have fun |
Not sure I follow FJ. That would prove RFHUTIL(c) could pub and sub MQ 7 style with that QM. But I think dilse's dilemma is what needs to happen for a message flow running under WMB 6.1 to be able to Pub and Sub with an MQ 7.0.1 Queue Manager.
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| dilse |
| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 270
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Thats correct Peter, fj. Following are the things that I tried.
1. I created a WMB 6.1 message flow that Publishes the message using RFH2 psc folder to populate the Pub Sub details in it. I also tried publishing without MQRFH2 header i.e by populating the Topic in the Properties.Topic element directly but none of them worked.
2. So I had the Broker Pub Sub engine disabled and WMQ 7 Pub Sub engine enabled thinking that when I publish from WMB 6.1 flow using either way(with and without MQRFH2 headers) for publishing, the flow will Publish the message to the WMQ7 Topic. But then i receieved the "BIP7034E: Publish/Subscribe support has been disabled" error.
So I am trying to find a solution that I can Publish the message using WMB 6.1 flow having the Topics created on the WMQ 7 Queue manager, which is the WMB6.1 Broker queue manager.
Please let me know if I am not clear. |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
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This should be easier. You must have missed something. Open a PMR and get clarification.
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| dilse |
| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 270
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I raised a PMR with IBM regarding my situation and following is the response that I received:
| Quote: |
| We confirmed with L3 support that you can not use WMB V6.1 to publish message on subscription registered on qmgr. You either have to use broker pub sub _ register subs and publish on broker or use MQ pub sub -> reg subs and publish on QMgr. You can either use just MQ or just the broker for pubsub in WMB V6.1. |
I am trying to get some more clarification on the specifics. Will keep you posted.
Thanks for your help!! |
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| Mirage |
| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Apprentice
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 44
Location: IL
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Hi dilse,
Do you have any further updates on this issue? Have you heard anything from IBM?
Thanks |
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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The WMB 6.1 Broker just does not have any code in it that is aware of the MQ 7 Pub Sub features. Even though the MQ version for the broker may be MQ 7, the WMB 6.1 Broker does not have any capability to open a topic object and to then put directly to a topic, and it does not know anything about the MQSUB verb.
This does not mean that WMB 6.1 flows can't play with an MQ 7 style Pub Sub infrastructure. The MQ Admin can create an Alias Queue that resolves to a pre defined Topic object. Then the WMB 6.1 Message Flow simply hooks up an MQOutput Node to that Alias queue and like magic it's now an MQ 7 publisher, by simply pushing plain messages to a plain MQ Output node. On the subscription side, the subscriptions can be created administratively ahead of time, sending the messages to a predefined queue. The WMB 6.1 flow then just hooks up a MQInput node to that queue and like magic its now a subscriber in MQ 7, picking up any messages that land on that queue. While this is a way to make WMB 6.1 play with MQ 7 Pub Sub, it does not scale well if you expect to have lots and lots of publishers and subscribers and topics.
In WMB 7 this all changes and WMB 7 is aware of the WMQ 7 way of doing Pub Sub.
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