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| keepalive, HBint, discint, etc. etc. |
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| George Carey |
 Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:47 pm Post subject: keepalive, HBint, discint, etc. etc. |
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Knight
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 500
Location: DC
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Need to actually try using something other than defaults for the various channel activity detection mechanisms. As I am trying to use cache timeout value for MQ Client connections from DataPowers but want to integrate that into current MQ server environment appropriately.
Did my due diligence in reading a few previous posts and tried using (again) the InfoCenter(until I could take the 2-3 line snippets of non-correlated information no longer),
Wondering if there is a MQ RedPaper or section of Admin Guide or somewhere that gives a comprehensive explanation of algorithm on how and when and where all the various TCP/IP channel activity detection variables are applied for Message Server and MQI channels. I am primarily interested in MQI channels but need to know both so as to avoid conflicts.
For example in TCP stanza KeepAlive = yes can be set in qm.ini and mqsclient.ini, when to use which when and why ...
But KeepAlive is somewhat obsolete and HBint more appropriate, then there are Discint which are primarily for Message Server channel and not MQI Server Conn channels except on Z/OS according to InfoCenter !!
But HeartBeat only sent on client channels on MQGet with Wait prior to MQ v7 , on v7 not the case ... more Heartbeats ... better detection ...
Then there is KAint (but that only applies to z/OS ..??) then the external OS setting needing to be set for TCP on server and ...
A nice concise example or two, write up that show how all the variables internal to MQ and external would be used for all the options and how they would apply or be overridden would be great!
Does any such thing exist ? Preferably an authoritative description(i.e Hursley sourced).
TIA
_________________
"Truth is ... grasping the virtually unconditioned",
Bernard F. Lonergan S.J.
(from book titled "Insight" subtitled "A Study of Human Understanding") |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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(...death to the InfoCenter)
_________________
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ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7722
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Have you read the MD0C Support Pack? Mandatory reading for anyone that even looks at a Queue Manager from an Admin perspective.
MD0C: WebSphere MQ - Keeping Channels Up and Running
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?rs=171&uid=swg24006699&loc=en_US&cs=utf-8&lang=en
Maybe not as "under the covers" / "inside the guts of MQ" as you are looking for, but perhaps you don't need any more than what is in this doc unless you are trouble shooting a bug of some sort.
What specifically are you trying to accomplish or prevent?
_________________
Peter Potkay
Keep Calm and MQ On |
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| George Carey |
| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:41 am Post subject: supportpac |
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Knight
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 500
Location: DC
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Excellent suggestion, Peter Thanks.
I remember cursorily viewing this some time ago now but never really studied it and forgot about its existence.
I will do so and see if it sheds sufficient light on when,where, how the various variable/attribute option usages play together.
The issues that I am wishing to address are
1.) Using DataPowers and some seem to have orphaned channels which I don't want increasing over time. The DP has only a Cache Timeout attribute for its MQ Manager object (controls dynamic connection to MQ Server) and the help recommendation says to use a value that is:
Negotiated Heartbeat int < Cache Timeout int < KeepAlive int
And my experiences so far with DataPowers are if one sets something a bit off one quickly has pain ... thousands of messages sent to a Error Queues in seconds or hundreds of alert emails sent ... and the like ... so I want/need to get it right, not sort of kind of right.
2.)So I want/need to get a solid understanding of first all the options and then the way all the various options play together for client connection activity detection and control. I fear a glib definitional understanding is not sufficient for proper usage.
_________________
"Truth is ... grasping the virtually unconditioned",
Bernard F. Lonergan S.J.
(from book titled "Insight" subtitled "A Study of Human Understanding") |
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| George Carey |
| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject: after reading |
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Knight
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 500
Location: DC
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Have read the material again a couple of times.
It's good but does seem at times cursory and at other times high level.
So ... useful ... but it was a foils presentation and likely more detailed explanatory information was imparted by the speaker and the notes were just that notes reminding of what to emphasize.
...
_________________
"Truth is ... grasping the virtually unconditioned",
Bernard F. Lonergan S.J.
(from book titled "Insight" subtitled "A Study of Human Understanding") |
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| mvic |
| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: after reading |
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Jedi
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 2080
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| George Carey wrote: |
Have read the material again a couple of times.
It's good but does seem at times cursory and at other times high level.
So ... useful ... but it was a foils presentation and likely more detailed explanatory information was imparted by the speaker and the notes were just that notes reminding of what to emphasize.
... |
Is this just feedback? (in which case, write to the originator of the presentation)
Or were there any questions outstanding that you needed answers for? |
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| George Carey |
| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:02 pm Post subject: MaxChannels |
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Knight
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 500
Location: DC
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Ok, here is a question ... related to previous topic ...
What is a rule on how MaxChannel and MaxActiveChannels should be used ... not just a definition of each term.
Looking for an answer I search through Infocenter MQv7.0.0 for MaxChannels
1.) The first hit I get is below
MaxChannels (MQLONG)
This is the maximum number of channels that can be current (including server-connection channels with connected clients). The value must be between 1 and 9999 and has a default value of 200. It is possible that a system which is busy serving connections from the network could need a higher number than the default setting. You should determine the value that is correct for your environment, ideally by observing the behavior of your system during testing.
To determine the value of this attribute, use the MQIA_MAX_CHANNELS selector with the MQINQ call.
Parent topic: Attributes for the queue manager
2.)No help here, so because I know it can be set in qm.ini I search for qm.ini and get this
Figure 1. qm.ini stanzas for distributed queuing
CHANNELS:
MAXCHANNELS=n ; Maximum number of channels allowed,
______________; default value is 100
MAXACTIVECHANNELS=n ; Maximum number of channels allowed to be active at
____________________; any time, the default is the value of MaxChannels
3.) No help there. Then an example of its use in qm.ini is given as follows:
MaxChannels=20 MaxActiveChannels=100 MQIBindType=STANDARD
Ok, despite the inconsistencies of default 100 and default 200 ... unless there is a difference between max current channels and max channels and despite the fact there is no rule explaining how one uses these two values together ...
What is the explanation of an example showing max channels 20 and max active channels 100 ... ????
It kind of begs the answer to my original question does it not ?
Other than useless info like this, InfoCenter is a charm, however !
_________________
"Truth is ... grasping the virtually unconditioned",
Bernard F. Lonergan S.J.
(from book titled "Insight" subtitled "A Study of Human Understanding") |
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| mvic |
| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: MaxChannels |
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Jedi
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 2080
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| George Carey wrote: |
1.) The first hit I get is below
MaxChannels (MQLONG)
This is the maximum number of channels that can be current (including server-connection channels with connected clients). The value must be between 1 and 9999 and has a default value of 200. |
Where are you searching? This section seems to have received a correction, assuming this is the page you were looking at:
http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/wmqv7/v7r0/topic/com.ibm.mq.csqzak.doc/fr19660_.htm
| Quote: |
MaxChannels (MQLONG)
This is the maximum number of channels that can be current (including server-connection channels with connected clients). For z/OS, the value must be between 1 and 9 999, with a default value of 200. For all other platforms, the value must be between 1 and 65 535, with a default value of 100. |
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| George Carey |
| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: when in through mq library from support portal |
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Knight
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 500
Location: DC
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When first I did a google search I picked up an MQv6 Info Center which was clearly wrong :
http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/wmqv6/v6r0/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.mq.csqzae.doc/ic11260_.htm
and got this:
MaxChannels (MQLONG)
This is the maximum number of channels that can be current (including server-connection channels with connected clients). The value must be between 1 and 9999 and has a default value of 200. It is possible that a system busy serving connections from the network could need a higher number than the default setting. You should determine the value that is right for your environment, ideally by observing the behavior of your system during testing.
This attribute is supported on z/OS® only.
To determine the value of this attribute, use the MQIA_MAX_CHANNELS selector with the MQINQ call.
Parent topic: Attribute descriptions
This build: November 3, 2010 23:52:12
Then I said OK at least get to v7 of InfoCenter and I went in through IBM support portal and got what I quoted before ... but frankly I am trying to duplicate that path and I get your corrected version ...
so ???? ....
Also I think the qm.ini example was also an error as I saw another example with Max channels 20 and max active channel 10 ... another 0 must have been added by mistake ...
_________________
"Truth is ... grasping the virtually unconditioned",
Bernard F. Lonergan S.J.
(from book titled "Insight" subtitled "A Study of Human Understanding") |
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| George Carey |
| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:30 pm Post subject: v7 info center link |
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Knight
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 500
Location: DC
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Ok, here is the culprit for bad info for v7 Infocenter
http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/wmqv7/v7r0m0/index.jsp
searh for MaxChannel and you get what I showed before.
Likewise for qm.ini.
.... c'est la vie ou c'est l'InfoCentre.
_________________
"Truth is ... grasping the virtually unconditioned",
Bernard F. Lonergan S.J.
(from book titled "Insight" subtitled "A Study of Human Understanding")
Last edited by George Carey on Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| mvic |
| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: when in through mq library from support portal |
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Jedi
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 2080
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| George Carey wrote: |
| so ???? .... |
Well, so I think you have a good point that this stuff is too difficult to understand. Someone on the forum must understand it, but I don't. I might try experimenting a bit and come back if I learn anything. Meantime, did you find anything via trial and error?
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| mvic |
| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: v7 info center link |
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Jedi
Joined: 09 Mar 2004
Posts: 2080
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| Wow 7.0.0 MQ docs. Truly a historical find. |
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| George Carey |
| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:48 pm Post subject: doco confused |
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Knight
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 500
Location: DC
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Well the documentation confused me ... I believe it is more straight forward as expected and the things like MaxChannels is only used in z/OS and examples of MaxChannels 20 and MaxActiveChannels 100 ... had me scratching my head ... as to how that could possibly work !!
I believe MaxChannels is the upper bound on all channels active and/or inactive and that MaxActiveChannels is just that the limit on how many channels can be active at a time, so an example of max 20 and max active 10 would say one could have up to 10 inactive channels beyond the 10 active ones ...
But this still does not explain a rule as to how/why one sets the max channels in relationship to max active ... a performance thing I would guess but ... a reference to that would be nice to see ....
So no, I've not gotten to experimenting yet, partly because I didn't/don't know exactly what I would be expecting to see .... beyond the obvious.
_________________
"Truth is ... grasping the virtually unconditioned",
Bernard F. Lonergan S.J.
(from book titled "Insight" subtitled "A Study of Human Understanding") |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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Excerpts from the Intercommunications manual:
An excerpt of a qm.ini file follows. It specifies that the TCP/IP listener is to listen on port 2500, the maximum number of current channels is to be 200 and the maximum number of active channels is to be 100.
TCP:
Port=2500
CHANNELS:
MaxChannels=200
MaxActiveChannels=100
From Figure 29. Channel states and substates of the same manual, channel can be inactive or current.
Substates of a current can be Stopped, Starting, Retrying, Active. (a channel status table entry exists for this channel.)
The DIS CHS() command allows you to specify where status information is to be retrieved.
From the MQSC manual:
CURRENT
This is the default, and indicates that current status information as held by
the channel initiator for current channels only is to be displayed.
Both common and current-only status information can be requested for
current channels.
Short status information is not displayed if this parameter is specified.
SAVED
Specify this to display saved status information for both current and
inactive channels.
Only common status information can be displayed. Short and current-only
status information is not displayed for current channels if this parameter is
specified.
SHORT
This indicates that short status information and the STATUS item for
current channels only is to be displayed.
Other common status and current-only status information is not displayed
for current channels if this parameter is specified.
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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...and to continue:
More from Intercommunications:
Specifying the maximum number of current channels:
You can specify the maximum number of channels that can be current at one time. This is the number of channels that have entries in the channel status table, including channels that are retrying and channels that are stopped.
Specifying the maximum number of active channels:
You can also specify the maximum number of active channels. You can do this to prevent your system being overloaded by a large number of starting channels. If you use this method, you should set the disconnect interval attribute to a low value to allow waiting channels to start as soon as other channels terminate.
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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