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| maven |
 Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:50 am Post subject: WMB + SonicMQ |
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Novice
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 15
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| Hi...Could you provide me any help or pointers relating to integrating message broker with SonicMQ. I need to create a setup where WMB will pick or drop messages from a SonicMQ queue. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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Java Compute Node reading / writing from/to a Sonic MQ queue?
Bridging application reading / writing from/to a Sonic MQ queue?
Replacing Sonic MQ with WMQ?
Producing a custom node that reads / writes from/to a Sonic MQ queue?
Other options are undoubtably available.
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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JMSInput/JMSOutput.
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| maven |
| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 15
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thanx Vitor n Jeff...using JMS Nodes i was able to send-receive messages...
one more query...
considering that no data transformation takes place in MB for picking message from sonicmq and place it on WMQ, which setup would be efficient:
1. JMSInput --> JMSOutput
2. JMSInput --> JMSMQTransform --> MQOutput |
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| zpat |
| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:05 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
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| Anyone interfacing WMB to Sonic MQ currently? |
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:00 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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The most efficient way available is custom coded SonicMQ client to a POJO or C MQ client. This yields best performance and most flexibility; however is the most expensive to maintain.
You could use Sonic's MQ Bridge product. Less performance, but support is outsourced to Sonic.
http://communities.progress.com/pcom/servlet/JiveServlet/download/11316-3-10651/webspheremq_bridge.pdf
Keep in mind your performance expectations knowing that Sonic's product runs in a JVM, is JMS based, and uses the WebSphere MQ Java API client. AFAIK, Sonic is not yet supporting natively WMQ version 7. The older Sonic product will work, but most of those functions used by Sonic to MQ bridge product in the WMQ Java API have been deprecated. The Sonic bridge is very particular that certain patches be present, and won't work forward or backward compatible WMQ configurations. They have to be the exact WMQ patches needed by Sonic.
You need to take stock of your application, as any bridge work usually means performance bottleneck and increased latency times. Ultimately, you should use the true-to-life grownup messaging product: WebSphere MQ. No offense intended: Evangelize the people to step up to a real product rather than patchwork some slowness into your application.
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| zpat |
| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:03 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
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OK thanks.
I was hoping to use the WMB JMS nodes as the way to interact - do you think this would have the same WMQ version dependencies?
We plan to upgrade to WMQ 7 on our WMB 6.1 platform shortly. |
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| Gaya3 |
| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:12 am Post subject: |
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Jedi
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 2493
Location: Boston, US
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| zpat wrote: |
OK thanks.
I was hoping to use the WMB JMS nodes as the way to interact - do you think this would have the same WMQ version dependencies?
We plan to upgrade to WMQ 7 on our WMB 6.1 platform shortly. |
One doubt..how good is Sonic MQ when you compare it with IBM MQV7 or what ever
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:12 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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Rather than try to use WMB to connect to Sonic, I would bridge the Sonic traffic to MQ, either using a POJO custom implementation or using Sonic's bridge. This method extends the loosely coupled concept. If you tightly couple Sonic to WMB, IMHO, your asking for trouble.
Bridge the traffic like this:
Sonic app -> Sonic MQ -> Sonic Bridge -> WebSphere MQ -> WMB
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| Gaya3 wrote: |
| One doubt..how good is Sonic MQ when you compare it with IBM MQV7 or what ever |
Kinda 
But in brief one product has had 15 years of investment from IBM & I don't just mean money (though a lot has been spent). IBM employs large numbers of very clever people.
One product has not benefited from this embarassment of riches. Which is not to say it's not had money spent on it, nor that some clever people have not worked on it. Just that it's on a different scale.
If you want to get into the detail of "how good" it is, start a new thread & first define how you're measuring "good" in this context.
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:28 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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@Gaya3
When I was a kid, I used to pester my mother at the grocery store to buy certain breakfast cereal based on what cheap prize they had inside the cereal box; not which cereal was most nutritious. Now that I am grown and old, I eat food good for me, not what cheesy little prize comes in the package.
In USA, a famous product is called CrackerJacks. It's a popcorn snack coated with caramel. Yummy. Everybox has a prize in it. If a person thinks an automobile is inferior or cheaply made, they culturally make a reference to the driver: "Where did you get that car, out of a CrackerJack box?"
I refrain from such comments about other messaging products, being sensitive to the diversity of our marketplace and out of professional courtesy for other people's product choices. However, if the shoe fits ...
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| zpat |
| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5866
Location: UK
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It's not about replacing MQ, this particular external vendor interface does not come over MQ. I cannot imagine replacing our internal use of WMQ with anything else.
I would have thought using a JMS interface from WMB would be less to maintain that a bridge with PoJo etc. But I will consider the options mentioned - although the MQ version dependencies sound very undesirable. |
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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Many conversations get twisted due to transport semantics.
What we are saying is JMS over SonicMQ or JMS over WMQ. JMS node is used. The question is how do you move the JMS message from the SonicMQ Transport to the WMQ transport?
One suggestion above was to write SonicMQ code in a JCN. I regard this as tight coupling. I find this architecturally undesireable.
What is the general product space of the SonicMQ application? Is it a medical app, a banking app, a stock trading app?
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| lancelotlinc wrote: |
Many conversations get twisted due to transport semantics.
What we are saying is JMS over SonicMQ or JMS over WMQ. JMS node is used. The question is how do you move the JMS message from the SonicMQ Transport to the WMQ transport?
One suggestion above was to write SonicMQ code in a JCN. I regard this as tight coupling. I find this architecturally undesireable.
What is the general product space of the SonicMQ application? Is it a medical app, a banking app, a stock trading app? |
JMS used with a SonicMQ JMSProvider would feed the JMSInput node. At that point, there would be no more Sonic code at all. Everything is now Broker. This also requires no user code of any kind that knows anything about SonicMQ.
Broker can easily, using a JMS->MQ Transformation node, convert the JMS headers into a set of MQ headers, which could then be output using an MQOutput node.
Three Broker nodes, all fully supported, no custom user code at all.... |
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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@mqjeff
This is a great solution you have suggested.
One reason I asked about the application is to assess how critical security is to this implementation.
One concern I would have is the topology. As I understand, the requirement is to interface with an external business partner. Using WMB as an ESB, I would position the ESB in the secure network zone, which would be inside the firewalls and not accessible to external trading partners. I would use a DataPower appliance or a transport bridge on the edge to receive external traffic from the business partner and perform the transition from SonicMQ transport to WMQ transport before being forwarded to the ESB.
The type of application has alot to do with a recommendation. For instance, a medical data application may not have the latency requirements that a stock trading application has.
Even so, I like your solution mqjeff, if we could deploy it to a DataPower device on the edge and not the ESB in the secure zone.
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