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| ramires |
 Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:38 am Post subject: Configuration events - Windows |
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Knight
Joined: 24 Jun 2001
Posts: 523
Location: Portugal - Lisboa
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Hello all,
Im using v 6.0.2.5 (Windows) and want to monitor the creation of dynamic queues. I'm in a situation where several applications use dynamic queues for replies. The typical use is: create a queue -> get the reply -> delete the queue. What I want is to count the number of dynamic queues created during a time period. With MQ for z/OS platform the are configuration events, but not in Windows. Suggestions on how to do this? 
Thanks!
ramires |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:40 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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Why are you doing this? When you discover how many dynamic queues are created, what will you do with this information?
What assumptions are you making? Do you see dynamic queues as a performance issue?
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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If the applications are not purge-deleting the queues, and they are being left behind, then trout the developers! Especially trout the developers if they are not prefixing the queues with an application-related identifier that makes filtering for them a no-brainer!
_________________
It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| ramires |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Knight
Joined: 24 Jun 2001
Posts: 523
Location: Portugal - Lisboa
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| Quote: |
| Why are you doing this? |
it can help me to dialog with the developers, and I found this a challenge
| Quote: |
| If the applications are not purge-deleting the queues |
the application deletes the dynamic queue
Regards
ramires |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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| Quote: |
| it can help me to dialog with the developers, and I found this a challenge |
What is the point of dialoguing about dynamic queues with developers? Do you dialog about other queue types or other mq objects?
Do you have a position as to the goodness or badness or dynamic queues?
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| ramires |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Knight
Joined: 24 Jun 2001
Posts: 523
Location: Portugal - Lisboa
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| bruce2359 wrote: |
| What is the point of dialoguing about dynamic queues with developers? Do you dialog about other queue types or other mq objects? |
I dialog a lot with others (developers, mq admins) using the boxes I also admin about all the aspects of MQ configuration. I think this is not related with initial question
regards
ramires |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:08 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| ramires wrote: |
| ...I dialog a lot with others (developers, mq admins) using the boxes I also admin about all the aspects of MQ configuration. I think this is not related with initial question... |
Then the question remains - what utility is there in you knowing how many are created/destroyed within a given period?
_________________
It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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Dynamic queues are a programming choice; they are neither good, nor bad. They are an effective way to do request-reply model applications.
What questions are the developers asking? What questions are you asking? What is it that you want to convey to the developers? What position are you trying to sell?
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| ramires |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:22 am Post subject: |
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Knight
Joined: 24 Jun 2001
Posts: 523
Location: Portugal - Lisboa
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| exerk wrote: |
| ...what utility is there in you knowing how many are created/destroyed within a given period? |
believe ir or not, I found other installations where old applications not well documented, not supported anymore (the original developer retired) using dynamic queues and people saying they are not using dynamic qs. I can verify this using some other method, like disabling access to all model queues and check for errors (in a production system not good idea). So, if I can count (or detect) when a dynamic queue is created, I can go to the appl owner and say "you see, the application is creating and deleting dynamic queues".
I also can do trace to check this, or I can use a tool like MO71 to do refreshes and catch one "live" dynamic queue
It's just an idea, this thing about counting the object creation |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:28 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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One last time: what is important to you regarding applications that use or don't use dynamic queues? what value to you/your organization is this knowledge? what productive use of this information do you anticipate?
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| ramires wrote: |
| exerk wrote: |
| ...what utility is there in you knowing how many are created/destroyed within a given period? |
believe ir or not, I found other installations where old applications not well documented, not supported anymore (the original developer retired) using dynamic queues and people saying they are not using dynamic qs. I can verify this using some other method, like disabling access to all model queues and check for errors (in a production system not good idea). So, if I can count (or detect) when a dynamic queue is created, I can go to the appl owner and say "you see, the application is creating and deleting dynamic queues".
I also can do trace to check this, or I can use a tool like MO71 to do refreshes and catch one "live" dynamic queue
It's just an idea, this thing about counting the object creation |
Oh I can believe it! I'd consider the first check for bespoke model queues will give you the verification that dynamics are probably in use, then judicious use of the MA0W SupportPac to trap the offender would be sufficient.
If you have an application creating/destroying 1000's of queues per hour, I don't see what leverage that will give you with the developers - if they are true to form they will still deny it's their application doing it! However, hitting them with a thick trace print out will not only educate them, but also leave you feeling a lot more relaxed  .
EDIT: I hope they're not still on V5.3, because if they are MA0W won't work.
_________________
It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| bruce2359 wrote: |
| One last time: what is important to you regarding applications that use or don't use dynamic queues? what value to you/your organization is this knowledge? what productive use of this information do you anticipate? |
I'm with ramires on this one - nothing worse for an Admin than not knowing what/how the application does with WMQ.
_________________
It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| ramires wrote: |
| I can verify this using some other method, like disabling access to all model queues and check for errors (in a production system not good idea). |
Quite, but you could easily do it in a dev/test environment. Many sites have a regression test production-like environment with a known test pack that's eminently suitible for this sort of thing.
It then becomes a simple matter to disable the model queue, run any test and if there are dynamic queues in use the failure will be obvious.
| ramires wrote: |
So, if I can count (or detect) when a dynamic queue is created, I can go to the appl owner and say "you see, the application is creating and deleting dynamic queues".
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Another alternative (and one I'd be inclined to use) is go to the appl owner and say "so if you're not creating and deleting dynamic queues I can just delete this model queue then. If you're sure" and see how confident they are. After all, it's very easy to check for this sort of thing in code.
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| ramires |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:21 am Post subject: |
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Knight
Joined: 24 Jun 2001
Posts: 523
Location: Portugal - Lisboa
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exerk: thanks for the MQ0W suggestion
Vitor:
| Quote: |
| Another alternative (and one I'd be inclined to use) is go to the appl owner and say "so if you're not creating and deleting dynamic queues I can just delete this model queue then. |
 doesn't work, to do a thing like this one some kind of "superior (lob)" approval is nedded...
bruce2359: you have many questions, sorry not having the answers
Tanks to all.
Last edited by ramires on Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| ramires |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:44 am Post subject: |
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Knight
Joined: 24 Jun 2001
Posts: 523
Location: Portugal - Lisboa
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