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| ikumar |
 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: Where to place process server? |
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Newbie
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 8
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Hi all,
I was wondering, In a project where i have ESB (Message Broker), Portal and process server and a backend application(provides the atomic services) are involved, Where should i place my process server layer.
i. Should it be between Portal and ESB? or
ii. Should it be between ESB and the backend.
The current architecture is to place process server between ESB and backend application and of course Portal layer is the front end. To summarise the layers.... Portal -> ESB -> Process server -> Backend.
I strongly feel Process server layer should be before ESB and the reason i feel so is that ESB should be used for application to application communication and portal layer in itself is not a complete application(its just the UI), So i feel Portal layer with Process server layer makes an application.
You may reply saying they can be used wherever and is completely requirement driven, I already have this answer and am expecting more concrete thoughts. |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Where to place process server? |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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| ikumar wrote: |
Hi all,
I was wondering, In a project where i have ESB (Message Broker), Portal and process server and a backend application(provides the atomic services) are involved, Where should i place my process server layer.
i. Should it be between Portal and ESB? or
ii. Should it be between ESB and the backend.
The current architecture is to place process server between ESB and backend application and of course Portal layer is the front end. To summarise the layers.... Portal -> ESB -> Process server -> Backend.
I strongly feel Process server layer should be before ESB and the reason i feel so is that ESB should be used for application to application communication and portal layer in itself is not a complete application(its just the UI), So i feel Portal layer with Process server layer makes an application.
You may reply saying they can be used wherever and is completely requirement driven, I already have this answer and am expecting more concrete thoughts. |
The process server is the BPEL engine.
It qualifies as such as an orchestration manager.
You should put it on the same level as the ESB as it is part of the ESB and enhances its capabilities.
Enjoy 
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| ikumar |
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Newbie
Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 8
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Same level as the ESB?? Does it mean the ESB has to call process server or process server has to call ESB ???
Since the two are used for clearly different purposes, Placing both at the same level may have meaning, But what if i have to decide on either ESB has to call process server or process server has to call ESB?? |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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| ikumar wrote: |
Same level as the ESB?? Does it mean the ESB has to call process server or process server has to call ESB ???
Since the two are used for clearly different purposes, Placing both at the same level may have meaning, But what if i have to decide on either ESB has to call process server or process server has to call ESB?? |
Interchangeable. Doesn't matter which calls which...
For me the placement question was a matter of firewall and internet/intranet zone. Clearly you might have had something different in mind... 
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| JLRowe |
| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:05 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 664
Location: South East London
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| ikumar wrote: |
Same level as the ESB?? Does it mean the ESB has to call process server or process server has to call ESB ???
Since the two are used for clearly different purposes, Placing both at the same level may have meaning, But what if i have to decide on either ESB has to call process server or process server has to call ESB?? |
I would say its also important on how the portal calls ESB/WPS, since WPS and the portal are both J2EE it is a lot easier to call between them - RMI being the best way). Personally, I would not call ESB from the portal since it is not J2EE and is more difficult to call. |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20756
Location: LI,NY
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| JLRowe wrote: |
| I would say its also important on how the portal calls ESB/WPS, since WPS and the portal are both J2EE it is a lot easier to call between them - RMI being the best way). Personally, I would not call ESB from the portal since it is not J2EE and is more difficult to call. |
Could you elaborate that last statement a little bit?
I thought SOAP over JMS would qualify as J2EE?
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| JLRowe |
| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:37 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 664
Location: South East London
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I was thinking that it would be better to call process server from portal using RMI (i.e. using EJB's), you then get all the full rich loveliness of session beans: JNDI lookup, clustering, failover, transaction propagation, security propagation etc etc.
I would implement a facade API to run on process server to cut down on round trips and expose an API closer to the business domain. i.e. portal only calls the facade and does not call process server API directly.
This is a tried and tested pattern I have recommended in several scenarios. |
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| chauhan_vin1 |
| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: It should be Portals->WPS->MessageBroker->Adapters- |
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Apprentice
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Phoenix AZ
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It should be Portals->WPS->MessageBroker->Adapters->EndSystem.
I strongly believe this and have implement a project like this , on big plus point that you have is later down the line you Adapters BO structure change you can make changes in your message Broker ( ESB) but making a change in the WPS and deploying the process ( Modules ) again would be a tedious task..
And more over its the best design patter I am suggesting you...as I have implemented it for one of the client of IBM. |
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| JLRowe |
| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 664
Location: South East London
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| To isolate the process from adaptor changes I would use mediations since they can talk SCA directly (better performance, easier deployment) and again run in J2EE/websphere (easier deployment/management). |
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