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| missing_link |
 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:19 am Post subject: Message Broker and Source Control |
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Acolyte
Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 60
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Hi
We are currently looking at moving to a new source control system for all of our code including message broker (v6.1). The top candidate for this at the moment is TFS, although as a team we would prefer Subversion.
I know that there is an eclipse plugin for TFS, but was wondering if anybody else out there uses TFS, and what any good and/or bad points experienced have been.
Cheers
ash. |
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:29 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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Are you a 100% Microsoft Windows outfit?
If so the TFS is a capable solution. It costs money whereas SVN or GIT do not.
If you are not a 100% MS outfit then you may have to use other tools to use TFS from outside of a windows system.
TFS really comes into its own when used with things like Visual Studio. Everything else (IMHO) is an afterthought.
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| missing_link |
| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Acolyte
Joined: 08 Jan 2004
Posts: 60
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Yep, all our development is done on Windows. One of our MS development teams already use it and have the ears of the people making the decision as to what tool we should move to.
I'm sure TFS works a treat with Visual Studio. My concern is that we will be pushed to use TFS for broker/MQ/java etc and that its integration with eclipse is not particularly great, and just causes us pain and restricts in what we can do. |
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| lancelotlinc |
| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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Hi Cousin.
TFS is nice for Windows development. Not so nice for multi-platform development.
Why is it everyone wants to dictate everything to everybody? People and teams have different needs. One size fits all is not a good approach.
Good luck.
Lance
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| jfattic |
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject: No worries |
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Newbie
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1
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Full disclosure: I work for Microsoft and I demo TFS for all types of developers.
If you are using Eclipse on Windows, it works exactly the same as if you are using Visual Studio. (We ship a free Eclipse plug-in called Team Explorer Everywhere.)
Subversion is a fine source control system and is feature-comparable to TFS. If all you need is source control, it doesn't really matter which one you choose. TFS is an ALM tool, so along with source control, it provides a plethora of other features all integrated nicely together. |
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject: Re: No worries |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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| jfattic wrote: |
Full disclosure: I work for Microsoft and I demo TFS for all types of developers.
TFS is an ALM tool, so along with source control, it provides a plethora of other features all integrated nicely together. |
And it still costs money.
PHB's the world over are looking to reduce costs. ALM is IMHO on the 'nice to have' list and not on the 'must have' one.
Many organisations don't need ALM and would be a massive overkill for them.
As my esteemed colleage (lancelotlinc) posted in this thread in 2011
| Quote: |
TFS is nice for Windows development. Not so nice for multi-platform development.
Why is it everyone wants to dictate everything to everybody? People and teams have different needs. One size fits all is not a good approach.
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_________________
WMQ User since 1999
MQSI/WBI/WMB/'Thingy' User since 2002
Linux user since 1995
Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions. |
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| mgk |
| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:41 am Post subject: |
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Padawan
Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 1642
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TFS may cost money, but the OP said:
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| all our development is done on Windows. One of our MS development teams already use it |
And given this which I assume means they already have the licences, it would seem to make good sense. Especially since Broker V8 has great new .NET support along with integration with Visual Studio! 
Kind Regards,
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MGK
The postings I make on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:18 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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Yeah, with broker v8 and the fact that you have to use Visual Studio to do any .NET development for the .NET Compute node, it is a much better choice to have the same source control system in both environments.
So in looking at something like SVN, you have to evaluate if the Eclipse plugin for TFS works better or worse than the Visual Studio plugin for SVN... |
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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| mqjeff wrote: |
| Yeah, with broker v8 and the fact that you have to use Visual Studio to do any .NET development for the .NET Compute node, it is a much better choice to have the same source control system in both environments. |
Oh dear more money. I'm sure the PHB's will love signing off on a copy of VS.
Or one can not use .NET and have code that is (within limits) portable to any of the other broker platforms.
Hmmmm. Now which one shall I choose?
_________________
WMQ User since 1999
MQSI/WBI/WMB/'Thingy' User since 2002
Linux user since 1995
Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| smdavies99 wrote: |
| mqjeff wrote: |
| Yeah, with broker v8 and the fact that you have to use Visual Studio to do any .NET development for the .NET Compute node, it is a much better choice to have the same source control system in both environments. |
Oh dear more money. I'm sure the PHB's will love signing off on a copy of VS. |
One can use Visual Studio Express.
| smdavies99 wrote: |
| Or one can not use .NET and have code that is (within limits) portable to any of the other broker platforms. |
Presumably the decision to use the .NETCompute node is not made in a vacuum. |
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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| mqjeff wrote: |
Presumably the decision to use the .NETCompute node is not made in a vacuum. |
You are probably correct in many situations.
However it was not that long ago that I had to 'educate' a PHB in that a multi-platform environment in Microsoft speak just refers to the different versions of Windows that the software will run on. Most certainly not the ability to run on AIX or HP/UX etc as well as Windows.
His idea was that all his .NET devs could suddenly develop broker flows when the target system was Solaris and he could make all us expensive broker devs redundant. Mind you that didn't stop that happening.
_________________
WMQ User since 1999
MQSI/WBI/WMB/'Thingy' User since 2002
Linux user since 1995
Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| smdavies99 wrote: |
| His idea was that all his .NET devs could suddenly develop broker flows when the target system was Solaris and he could make all us expensive broker devs redundant. Mind you that didn't stop that happening. |
I'm reasonably sure the following things were also true: none of the non-windows boxes were managed by any of his people; none of the broker devs were managed by him; he felt he could get a promotion by moving the company to a 'less expensive' platform, in which one solaris box was replaced by six "cheaper" microsoft boxes.
So I doubt the motivation was purely related to his failure to understand technology. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| smdavies99 wrote: |
However it was not that long ago that I had to 'educate' a PHB in that a multi-platform environment in Microsoft speak just refers to the different versions of Windows that the software will run on. Most certainly not the ability to run on AIX or HP/UX etc as well as Windows.
His idea was that all his .NET devs could suddenly develop broker flows when the target system was Solaris and he could make all us expensive broker devs redundant. Mind you that didn't stop that happening. |
I'm sitting on a multi platform environment, with WMB on Solaris & other platforms being z/OS, Linux & Windows (plus some odd legacy stuff no one cares about). We have enough WAS licenses to paper the walls and enough Java to build a full size model of Mount Rushmore with the hard copy (yes, my ideal site, stop laughing, my boss's boss has already & independantly banned the use of the JCN). We are migrating much of the Java functionality into WESB & WMB to reduce home spun code.
When we get a chance to move to WMBv8 our next target is all the .NET code. Despite the massive penetration of Java, there are business areas and development teams who insist on using .NET and can get buy in to support their decision. So .NET lives in multi-platform.
| smdavies99 wrote: |
| Oh dear more money. I'm sure the PHB's will love signing off on a copy of VS. |
One variation of the beast comes with the WMBv8 install. I'm fairly sure the IBMer giving the presentation in Las Vegas indicated it was as free to use as the rest of the WMB developer platform; I'll stand correction by any authoritative source.
Also as my most worthy associate points out, if that doesn't work with whatever plugin or other Windoze magic you need to link to source control, you can download one.
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| Vitor wrote: |
| When we get a chance to move to WMBv8 our next target is all the .NET code. Despite the massive penetration of Java, there are business areas and development teams who insist on using .NET and can get buy in to support their decision. So .NET lives in multi-platform. |
Remember that you can not deploy a .NETCompute node to any broker that is not running on Windows.
| Vitor wrote: |
| smdavies99 wrote: |
| Oh dear more money. I'm sure the PHB's will love signing off on a copy of VS. |
One variation of the beast comes with the WMBv8 install. I'm fairly sure the IBMer giving the presentation in Las Vegas indicated it was as free to use as the rest of the WMB developer platform; I'll stand correction by any authoritative source. |
I was not aware that any version of VS was included in the Toolkit or broker runtime installation media. Then again, I've not spent a lot of time looking at the Toolkit or runtime installation media for it.
Visual Studio Express is the free version. It is downloadable for free from Microsoft. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| mqjeff wrote: |
| Vitor wrote: |
| When we get a chance to move to WMBv8 our next target is all the .NET code. Despite the massive penetration of Java, there are business areas and development teams who insist on using .NET and can get buy in to support their decision. So .NET lives in multi-platform. |
Remember that you can not deploy a .NETCompute node to any broker that is not running on Windows. |
This bunch of .NET zealots refuse to believe in any other platform. Part of the delay in getting WMBv8 is "we" have no Windows WMB machines, it's all on Solaris. First we get platform, then we get them.
[quote="mqjeff"I was not aware that any version of VS was included in the Toolkit or broker runtime installation media. Then again, I've not spent a lot of time looking at the Toolkit or runtime installation media for it. [/quote]
I stand by my assertion I can be corrected. 
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