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MQSeries.net Forum Index » General IBM MQ Support » compatibilty of MQ 5.3 and MQ 6.0 messages on the queue

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sidharth_bora
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:39 pm    Post subject: compatibilty of MQ 5.3 and MQ 6.0 messages on the queue Reply with quote

Voyager

Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 87

hi All,
just need your expert advise and pointer on this issue -
recently we have upgraded our infra to MQ 6.0 from MQ 5.3 & while testing application team found some issues with their code and wanted to revert back tp MQ 5.3.
My question is
1. Are the messages on the queue of MQ 6.0 queue manager compatible with MQ 5.3 Queue manager, i.e if the same mesasges can be processed by the application when we replay them to the queue on the MQ 5.3 QM

2. if not, then what's the way get it done.

cheers
Sid
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sumit
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:33 pm    Post subject: Re: compatibilty of MQ 5.3 and MQ 6.0 messages on the queue Reply with quote

Partisan

Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 398

sidharth_bora wrote:
recently we have upgraded our infra to MQ 6.0 from MQ 5.3


How you upgraded MQ from v5.3 to v6.0?

sidharth_bora wrote:
while testing application team found some issues with their code and wanted to revert back tp MQ 5.3.


Instead of going back to old MQ version, the application should be modified to interact with MQ 6. Have you compiled your application code (if there is any) with 64 bit for MQ 6.0?
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sidharth_bora
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyager

Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 87

Hi,
Application changes will take time. Till then they want to access it on Mq5.3

Appreciate if i can get a direct answer to propose a solution to them - its somewhat urgent to get back to them

thanks for any pointers/ help

Cheers
Sid
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Vitor
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:05 am    Post subject: Re: compatibilty of MQ 5.3 and MQ 6.0 messages on the queue Reply with quote

Grand High Poobah

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA

sidharth_bora wrote:

1. Are the messages on the queue of MQ 6.0 queue manager compatible with MQ 5.3 Queue manager, i.e if the same mesasges can be processed by the application when we replay them to the queue on the MQ 5.3 QM


If you're talking abour unloading the messages (with qload or similar) from a local queue on one v6 queue manager, then reloading them back into a v5.3 queue manager's local queue then it ought to work, as you're just doing gets and puts.

If you're being non-standard and moving queue files round then you'll have less luck I think.

I struggle to see what your application people could have done that their code will not work on v6 but will on v5.3. Whatever it is, it's not best practice as the application should be blind to the messaging layer.
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sidharth_bora
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyager

Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 87

Hi,

Quote:
If you're talking abour unloading the messages (with qload or similar) from a local queue on one v6 queue manager, then reloading them back into a v5.3 queue manager's local queue then it ought to work, as you're just doing gets and puts.


this havent been tested but then its not feasible as we have thousands of queues. yeah, it can be scripted but can some body confirm on the compatibility. I dont find it any where in IBM docs.

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Sid
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Vitor
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand High Poobah

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA

sidharth_bora wrote:
this havent been tested but then its not feasible as we have thousands of queues.


I stand by my comment above on non-standard methods.

If you're planning to move the file system of a v6 queue manager under a v5.3 queue manager and start it up, then that won't work. The log structure is different - a v6 queue manager does an automatic conversion on the first start up following upgrade. A v5.3 manager (obviously) can't do the same in reverse.

Obviously if you have a pre-upgrade file system backup then you can restore that & your v5.3 manager will run like a Swiss watch.

I'm still interested in what your app people have done. They shouldn't need this.
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Vitor
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand High Poobah

Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA

Here's a point that's just occured to me, which might inform your decision.

Assume you use method x to move the messages from v6 -> v5.3 and it seems to work. Your app people switch to this new queue manager, and complain that the original problem (whatever it is) is resolved, but now they're getting a new problem.

How will you determine if the problem is caused by the queue manager not functioning properly, or a new code issue within the application? Confidence in the testing will be hard to come by.

I still think you're better off fixing the app problem on v6, as this gives you greater confidence. Unless you have a really good exercise pack you can validate the v5.3 queue manager with. Which of course you might have!
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bruce2359
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poobah

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9469
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.

Quote:
while testing application team found some issues with their code and wanted to revert back tp MQ 5.3.

What issues?
Are all applications having the same issues? Or just the new or newly revised applications?

It's quite common for programmers to fix blame for their bad code on something environmental, like an o/s fix, a new sort utility, compiler change, new moon...
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sidharth_bora
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyager

Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 87

Quote:
Here's a point that's just occured to me, which might inform your decision.

Assume you use method x to move the messages from v6 -> v5.3 and it seems to work. Your app people switch to this new queue manager, and complain that the original problem (whatever it is) is resolved, but now they're getting a new problem.

How will you determine if the problem is caused by the queue manager not functioning properly, or a new code issue within the application? Confidence in the testing will be hard to come by.


The application was running all ok when it was accessing the mq 5.3, so if we revert back they shouldnt have any issues. And if there is, then we can tell them to fix it and make compatible with mq 6.0 ( which I am sure there wont be , as i was the one supporting them on mq 5.3).

Is there any other way - that messages lying on the queue on MQ 6.0 can be transferred to to the MQ 5.3 with minimal downtime.

Cheers Sid
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sidharth_bora
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voyager

Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Posts: 87

Quote:
What issues?
Are all applications having the same issues? Or just the new or newly revised applications?

It's quite common for programmers to fix blame for their bad code on something environmental, like an o/s fix, a new sort utility, compiler change, new moon...


I do agree but at this moment - we need to support them on mq 5.3. as asked earlier, is there anyway (qload - will take lots of time as we have thousand of queues) that messages lying on the queue on MQ 6.0 can be transferred to to the MQ 5.3 with minimal downtime.

cheers
Sid
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exerk
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Council

Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339

I would argue that migrating a queue manager with messages on application queues is not a good idea, especially when you have 'thousands' of queues!

Either script qload to run against the queues to take copies of the messages for reload, or if the messages aren't critical - who cares. Of course if the messages are critical, you will have had a full system/file-set backup taken, and can just restore it. You did take a back-up didn't you?
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SAFraser
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaman

Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 742
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

You could recreate the local destination queues on 6.0 as remote queues, pointing to local queues on a 5.3 queue manager. Just like qload, this would be a lot of work for thousands of queues (though it is easily scripted); you would need for the original destination queues to be empty and the applications accessing the original queues to be quiesced.

You haven't mentioned your OS, I don't think? And what is the language of the application?

I'm not really clear on what you mean by "revert back to 5.3". If you mean you want to turn the existing 6.0 queue managers into 5.3 queue managers, you are stuck with downtime.

You have our sympathy. The developers are really asking you to do something that is bad practice.
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