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| MQ_Lover |
 Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:04 am Post subject: MQ Contractor what we provide as a service |
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Acolyte
Joined: 15 Jul 2013
Posts: 67
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Hi All,
This a rather general question to all senior MQ contractors in this Forum, I am in this contract where I was taken onboard to work on a Project to migrate/upgrade MQ. Now suddenly from no where they asking me to train the guys in their team on MQ. I am kind of bit feeling odd on this one.. do we as contractors are hired to do some work or do we do the work and spoon feed/train the permanent employees. What they say is do dev build and tell us and sit next to us and we would do production.
Why I say so is, we worked hard to learn/accumulate all this special skill and now someone tries to act smart. In my view we are hired to do a work as we are skilled to do that, if they want to teach there permanent employees they need to hire a MQ trainer rather a MQ contractor, What are your views on this and if at all I can push back what is the best way, please advise.
Thanks. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9396
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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Are you being asked to train your clients for free?
I gather that you don't want to train your replacement. Yes? What do you see as your alternatives?
If your contract specifically excluded training, I suppose you could refuse.
Rather than asking total strangers on the Internet for career advise, what alternatives do you see?
Since you asked, my general policy is to keep the client happy, as long as I'm not asked to do something unethical.
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Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:54 am Post subject: Re: MQ Contractor what we provide as a service |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| MQ_Lover wrote: |
| In my view we are hired to do a work as we are skilled to do that, if they want to teach there permanent employees they need to hire a MQ trainer rather a MQ contractor |
Speaking entirely personally, it's common for a site to employ contract staff to do MQ work and hand off that work to permanent staff; typically that hand off requires a certain amount of training as if they'd had qualified MQ staff on site, they'd not have employed contractors in the first place. I've been in that position a number of times and have some PowerPoints that I adapt to various site colours / formats / styles.
You'll also observe that on this forum, inexperienced staff are advised to seek mentoring from more experienced staff; getting a contractor is a source of such mentoring often mentioned.
| MQ_Lover wrote: |
| What are your views on this and if at all I can push back what is the best way, please advise. |
It's perfectly reasonable for you to push back if you feel that you were employed to do a specific set of tasks that did not include training; you can at least indicate that generating training materials will take more time / more money or getting an increase in your rate.
I'd doubt that any contact / terms of engagement / service proposal that you have with the site is that narrow and even if it was, it's not going to help your reputation standing on the letter of the law.
In my view. Your view may be completely different and will in any case be equally valid. I stand with the general points made by my worthy associate, especially the wisdom of asking total strangers for career advice.
People who actually know me don't ask me for career advice. This may be because they're familiar with the train wreck that is my career.
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:18 am Post subject: Re: MQ Contractor what we provide as a service |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| MQ_Lover wrote: |
| In my view we are hired to do a work as we are skilled to do that, if they want to teach there permanent employees they need to hire a MQ trainer rather a MQ contractor |
It really depends on the amount of training they're asking for. If they're asking for more or less informal paired programming/admin and support for handover, that's one thing.
If they're asking you to present a week long class to a large number of employees, that's an entirely separate thing.
| Vitor wrote: |
| This may be because they're familiar with the train wreck that is my career. |
Ahh, the things we do for love.
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:53 am Post subject: Re: MQ Contractor what we provide as a service |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| mqjeff wrote: |
| Vitor wrote: |
| This may be because they're familiar with the train wreck that is my career. |
Ahh, the things we do for love. |
People don't ask me for advice about personal matters either, for much the same reason they don't ask for career help...... 
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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Sure you can train the permies in MQ.
What they are paying you for is your experience. No amount of training you give them can substitue for that.
Does this customer have a high turnover of staff? you know techies for a couple of years then then into Management and all that?
There are a number of us who have decided that Management is not our gig and have remained techies.
I'll be retiring soon and don't regret not going into management one little bit.
_________________
WMQ User since 1999
MQSI/WBI/WMB/'Thingy' User since 2002
Linux user since 1995
Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions. |
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| rammer |
| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:36 am Post subject: |
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Partisan
Joined: 02 May 2002
Posts: 359
Location: England
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When ever we have had contractors (not just MQ) we have used them to sort out issues specifically for what they were hired for but also provide knowledge transfer to team members on products that they are engaged to assist us on due to lack of knowledge / skills within the team, then anything deeper official courses have been sought.
And if anyone is aware of any MQ Admin roles (contracting or permanent) in the midlands area of England, coming up over the next 5 months, please give me a shout! |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9396
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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For me, the client frequently wants a bit more than just what the "official" engagement contract specified. A freebie, if you will. I have no problem with this, as long as it is just a bit more.
If it's substantially more time-on-job, then a bit of renegotiation is in order. I don't quibble if, for example, I'm there to do an MQ installation, but someone asks for a bit of application development support.
I did an install engagement at one client, and asked if the tech team intended for me do it all by myself? Or, if they wanted to watch. Or, if they wanted to do the install with me supervising and directing.
I enjoy the client stuff. It's fun and entertaining, and I don't want the client to think that I did the barest minimum for them - such that they will feel obligated to call me back. I want to leave the first engagement with the client smarter and happier that they called me. When/if needed, they just might call me back for a second.
That's just one opinion from a semi-random stranger on Mr. Internet, for what it's worth.
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| RogerLacroix |
| Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 3253
Location: London, ON Canada
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Hi,
As a contractor, I have been to many customer sites that were a lot of fun to work at and I really didn't care what they asked me to do (never illegal or unethical) and I have been to some real horrible customer sites.
Being a contractor by its very nature means that you will be out of work in a few months. If you sign a 3 or 6 month contract, unless management is happy, you will not be renewed. Therefore, why not "happily" do what the management wants and be a "good little soldier". Hence, maybe you can pickup a contractor in a different department.
Come to MQTC and I will dish on the really bad ones.  I have a big mouth and take very little lying down (for better or worst) and it makes for exciting times as a contractor.
- There's the one working with a new (5-6 months) employee (passive/aggressive) who drove me crazy. After 30 months of being on site, I told management that when my contract ends in 2 months, I would not renew. Well that didn't go over well. A week or so later, my contract was terminated but I was paid in full to the end of it.
- There's the one where I was brought in as a emergency contractor on a month to month because the previous MQAdmin had moved on to a new job but management didn't get a replacement. 3 weeks later the previous MQAdmin quit his new job and asked his old boss to "come back" and the boss said ok and boom I was out of a contract.
- There's the one where I was brought into a 1 week contract (I was brought in blind) to implement MQ on Solaris. Monday morning the the manager described what was to be done and ended with "I'll get you in touch with the team lead so that she can show you what files are to be transferred". First shock then after a bunch of questions, I found out that they wanted me to implement a "complete ftp over MQ" solution in 1 week in 1999 but all they had for software was MQ (which they were brand new to). I'm good but not that good.
The bottom-line is that shit happens as a contractor and you just have to roll with the punches.
Regards,
Roger Lacroix
Capitalware Inc.
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| zpat |
| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5849
Location: UK
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But contractors can ease the pain by looking at the balance on their Swiss Bank Accounts.
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Well, I don't think there is any question about it. It can only be attributable to human error. This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error. |
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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| zpat wrote: |
| But contractors can ease the pain by looking at the balance on their Swiss Bank Accounts. |
mine was in Jersey but yes I agree.
Stopped contracting around 2005 though.
_________________
WMQ User since 1999
MQSI/WBI/WMB/'Thingy' User since 2002
Linux user since 1995
Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| zpat wrote: |
| But contractors can ease the pain by looking at the balance on their Swiss Bank Accounts. |
Cayman Islands. Who'd have thought the Swiss would ever relax their banking privacy laws?
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| MQ_Lover |
| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:39 am Post subject: |
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Acolyte
Joined: 15 Jul 2013
Posts: 67
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| Many Thanks for your responses Vitor, Roger, mqjeff, rammer, smdavies99 and zpat. I think I know how to handle this hopefully, thanks once again all of you, always been very helpful. |
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| zpat |
| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5849
Location: UK
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| Vitor wrote: |
Cayman Islands. Who'd have thought the Swiss would ever relax their banking privacy laws? |
Yes, you can't trust anyone these days. Still I guess my Liechtenstein blind-trust with triple DES encryption is uncrackable 
Get your own country - that's the answer, or at least an island.
_________________
Well, I don't think there is any question about it. It can only be attributable to human error. This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| zpat wrote: |
| Get your own country - that's the answer, or at least an island. |
Or find... useful... information about a bank CEO...
Note to anyone following this thread and wondering. We are all making jokes about hiding money. We are not advocating any such thing, nor admitting or confessing to any actions.
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