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| paustin_ours |
 Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:12 pm Post subject: IBM will only stand to loose |
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Yatiri
Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 667
Location: columbus,oh
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Just venting. I have been a MQ/Message Broker consultant for a little over 10 years now. More often than I would like to see, the implementation of message broker in a company is done with complete disregard to standards and in some cases it is used in a way that a ESB tool shouldn't be used. The IBM sales guys in the company merely seem to be interested in agreeing with the decision makers of the firm rather than educating them with the right use of the products. Guess what I cant tell you how many times that MQ and Broker gets blamed when a project screws up. Many cases the discussions goes into looking at alternatives to MQ and Broker. Now I don't know if IBM doesn't care as they have moved on to bigger and better things. I do like to think that ESB and SOA is still alive and Message Broker will continue to play a key role.
With the advent of so many open source ESB alternatives shouldn't IBM be more keen on making their own flagship product shine?
What good is a million tweets per day or having super conferences from IBM when there is damage happening where the rubber meets the road every day.
If I were IBM I would make every learning material free!! But again I am just tired and about to call it a night.
P:S This is just my opinion of course |
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| Gaya3 |
| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 2493
Location: Boston, US
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Very true 
2 clients whom i closely associated with had already embraced different products.
1st client . MQ to Apache MQ
2nd client took Tibco instead of message broker.
there is one more in place they are evaluating Tandem ESB now.
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Regards
Gayathri
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Do Something Before you Die |
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| paustin_ours |
| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 667
Location: columbus,oh
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While I am in the venting mode. We had a very senior IBMer at our work place for an hour long meeting. Instead of advising us on the problem at hand and how the company can improve usage of the product it was a sale show on v10 and whats coming beyond that...
In my opinion if a product performs so well in your firm and the ROI is through the roof. People will come looking for v10.
You take your car to the dealer and say you have mileage problems and the dealer chews your ears off on the new model that is coming out and gives you a new floor mat. That feeling! |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:57 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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There appear to be two main reasons why IIB is poorly implemented in a lot of places.
- Poor training, or lack of training
- active resistance by development staff to treat it as a proper environment to solve business problems
I kind of disagree that IIB should only be used as an ESB. It's certainly great for that, but it's also good for a lot of smaller cases - almost one off interfaces to ensure a point of control and point of reliability.
Of course, that also leads to sloppy standards and controls.
And if you don't think this is venting... I am no longer a travelling IIB consultant. |
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| paustin_ours |
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:10 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 667
Location: columbus,oh
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| Whatever be the case. When most corporate jobs are about covering your *rear* it is easy to finger point MB as a bottleneck. IBM should do something about it before it is too late which in many cases may already be. Maybe ask Watson! |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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| There's only so much IBM can do to change the corporate culture of any given customer. |
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| paustin_ours |
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:34 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 667
Location: columbus,oh
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| Ofcourse. All am saying is they need to enable thier user base so that MB or anything for that matter doesnt become an easy target like it is happening day in and day out or maybe they have a bigger plan that a mere mortal like me cant understand. |
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| mqjeff |
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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The salesguy's job is to sell.
There are various other people in IBM who's job it is to enable customers.
 Customers usually have to pay for that, usually don't want to, or don't listen when they do.
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| paustin_ours |
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 667
Location: columbus,oh
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Exactly the reason for my rant. That approach towards enablement just doesnt seem to have worked i dont think.
whats more important loosing a million dollars or loosing say 20000 dollars, i guess it is for IBM to decide and maybe they have. I am venting remember! |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| mqjeff wrote: |
| ... Customers usually have to pay for that, usually don't want to, or don't listen when they do... |
Since working as a contractor I have found that although the customer pays for my skills and knowledge*, the customer is not obligated to use them; further, and anecdotally, it seems the more expensive the advice sought, the less inclined it is to be used.
* poor and little - I thought I'd get that in first!
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| paustin_ours |
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:29 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 667
Location: columbus,oh
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20696
Location: LI,NY
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Some of them just want to be able to say: We have investigated the matter, it is prohibitively expensive to fix, so we are praying nothing will happen in the meantime... 
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MQ & Broker admin |
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: IBM will only stand to loose |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7717
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| paustin_ours wrote: |
With the advent of so many open source ESB alternatives shouldn't IBM be more keen on making their own flagship product shine?
What good is a million tweets per day or having super conferences from IBM when there is damage happening where the rubber meets the road every day.
If I were IBM I would make every learning material free!! |
I've been saying this for years....
http://www.mqseries.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=58275&highlight=education
Alas, IBM is so penny wise and pound foolish nowadays I don't know when if ever we would see something from them like this. Imagine, investing a trivial pittance in having your (IBM) employees and core users (us) knowledgeable about your product!
_________________
Peter Potkay
Keep Calm and MQ On |
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| smdavies99 |
| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 6076
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow this side of Never-never land.
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| mqjeff wrote: |
There appear to be two main reasons why IIB is poorly implemented in a lot of places.
And if you don't think this is venting... I am no longer a travelling IIB consultant. |
spot on. I have encountered several sites in the time that I've been using MQSI/WBMIB/WMB/IIB/???? where a 'so called IBM Expert' has told the customer that is the way to do it (recollections of 'Punch and Judy' come to mind here) and the customer has treated those words as gospel.
The 'IBM Export' was probably a contractor engaged by Global Services and was long gone by the time people who really knew the product arrived on the scene to pick up the pieces and make a working system.
Thankfully these instances seem to be a bir rarer now although I had to intervene a few months ago when a new site of ours wanted to engage IBM to do the development. We told them that it was 90% complete (it was really). We'd cloned it from another site because their configuration was almost identical to the site we'd used as a reference during the sale.
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WMQ User since 1999
MQSI/WBI/WMB/'Thingy' User since 2002
Linux user since 1995
Every time you reinvent the wheel the more square it gets (anon). If in doubt think and investigate before you ask silly questions. |
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