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MQSeries.net Forum IndexGeneral DiscussionAutonomous Lost Message Notifier

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RogerLacroix
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:05 am Post subject: Autonomous Lost Message Notifier Reply with quote

Jedi Knight

Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 3020
Location: London, ON Canada

All,

I've written an interesting (hopefully) blog item, so if you are munching on Halloween candy & want something to read, please check it out:
http://www.capitalware.com/rl_blog/?p=4587

Regards,
Roger Lacroix
Capitalware Inc.
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gbaddeley
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:42 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Padawan

Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 1732
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Nice work. I always say MQ doesn't lose messages, we just don't know where they went right now.
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Glenn
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zpat
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:27 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Council

Joined: 19 May 2001
Posts: 5558
Location: UK

gbaddeley wrote:
we just don't know where they went right now.


Familiar to any cat owner.....
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Well, I don't think there is any question about it. It can only be attributable to human error. This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error.
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bruce2359
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:44 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Poobah

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 7842
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.

"Assured delivery" is not "guaranteed delivery." Exceptions to delivery are well documented.

A well-behaved application (with or without MQ involvement) should be sensitive to loss or duplication. A requesting app should keep track of requests it sent, and replies it received. A responding app should be sensitive to request it received and replies it returned. The requesting app should re-send requests for which it received no reply; and a responding app should ignore duplicate requests. And so on.

In its "store and forward" or "fire and forget" design, MQ makes a best-effort to deliver. COA/COD offer a tool to help apps learn about msg delivery, but doesn't guarantee, for example, that the appropriate app consumed the message.

MQ is much like a pipe through which water flows. MQ does not arbitrate on behalf of the applications.
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RogerLacroix
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:13 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Knight

Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 3020
Location: London, ON Canada

bruce2359 wrote:
A well-behaved application (with or without MQ involvement) should be sensitive to loss or duplication. A requesting app should keep track of requests it sent, and replies it received. A responding app should be sensitive to request it received and replies it returned. The requesting app should re-send requests for which it received no reply; and a responding app should ignore duplicate requests. And so on.



You're a funny guy. If we only lived in a perfect world!!

When I finished University, the 2nd company I worked at had a system, i.e. code reviews, code walk-through, etc., that everyone in the middleware team had to follow. The mantra was catch more bugs up front and that means you do more 'new' code development rather than patching bugs. At first I didn't like it, but I came around to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Many years later, I got an MQ consulting job with Candle. They sent me to company after company talking MQ doing setup and/or programming depending on the assignment. Besides learning about different company's scary practices, I learnt that 80% of the people don't learn and DON'T CARE to learn about whatever product it is they are using. There are no best practices, no code reviews, no code walk-though, etc... It is do whatever to make it work.

I can name 10+ web sites that crash or lockup if you do anything other than the VERY basic stuff. Do any of the programmers care that created this crap? No.

I think the biggest root cause to this problem is that these programmers are only doing the job because for 20 years, IT has been the high-paying industry. If tomorrow, you could get 6-figures flipping hamburgers then they would leave to do that job. There are so many people going to college or University and getting a degree in history, arts, etc. then can't get a job. A friend, buddy or family member gets them an IT job and off they go. The closest they've come to programming is playing a video game.

A perfect example of this is Susan Mauldin. She was the CSO (Chief Security Officier) for Equifax until the security breach was announced. Her degrees were in music composition!!!

For the couple of years, I've watched my kids go for job interviews with Google, IBM, Amazon, Facebook, Apple, etc. and they have to do coding assignments before they are booked for an interview. Why do these companies do that, because they know most people cannot code but want the money.

Should IT or programming be a regulated profession like doctors or lawyers? I don't know but it is food for thought.

Ok. I'll stop ranting.

Regards,
Roger Lacroix
Capitalware Inc.
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bruce2359
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:38 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Poobah

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 7842
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.

RogerLacroix wrote:
bruce2359 wrote:
A well-behaved application (with or without MQ involvement) should be sensitive to loss or duplication. A requesting app should keep track of requests it sent, and replies it received. A responding app should be sensitive to request it received and replies it returned. The requesting app should re-send requests for which it received no reply; and a responding app should ignore duplicate requests. And so on.



You're a funny guy. If we only lived in a perfect world!!

I try.

I know that they are possible, but I've seen very few well-behaved apps. Too much time and trouble to write and debug. "We'll deal with missing data downstream" or some such.
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gbaddeley
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:13 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Padawan

Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 1732
Location: Melbourne, Australia

bruce2359 wrote:
MQ is much like a pipe through which water flows. MQ does not arbitrate on behalf of the applications.

For critical data interfaces, the partner apps should be able to reconcile transactions and detect missing or duplicate data. We have some systems that do this very well, including being able to replay old data through the interface.

However, many MQ and IIB interfaces are badly designed, because the designers and developers do not fully understand the production landscape and all its failure modes, let alone understand best practise and the capabilities of MQ and IIB.
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Glenn
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