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MQSeries.net Forum IndexGeneral IBM MQ SupportMulticast in MQMFT

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vishBroker
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:27 pm Post subject: Multicast in MQMFT Reply with quote

Centurion

Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 120

Hi,

The question I have been asked is ' What network configuration [firewall/router] is needed to have multicast MQMFT setup between different locations [Japan and USA] '?

Now, I know - the network related configuration question is not for this forum, but I was wondering - about MQMFT and multicast.

So, question for my elite members is - "Does MQMFT agent uses multicast while communicating with other agents/QM ?"

I tried to analyze it with my little knowledge and experience
1. MQ DOES support multicast
2. The MQ Multicast is used for low-latency messaging
[no-brainer so for]
3. MQMFT agent can publish a file to topic.[Alias queue with TargetType as TOPIC]
4. One can set up a TOPIC with MCAST(ENABLED) COMMINFO (someThingSomeThing)
5. So, if my MQMFT agent is configured to publish file to the multi-cast topic, I could say - MQMFT agent uses[can use] multicast while communicating with peers/QM.

Am I on right path? Or have I been smoking something?

Kindly advice/correct. Your inputs are greatly valued.

Regards,
Vishnu
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mqjeff
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:39 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand Master

Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17059

Does multicast work between data centers?

Does the MFT talk about where it can and can't use multicast, or if it does?

What is the purpose of using multicast?
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vishBroker
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:16 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Centurion

Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 120

Thanks!
mqjeff wrote:
Does multicast work between data centers?
=> (Hopefully), yes. I have asked that question, but will follow up with network team. Considering the link between Japan and USA data centers is there for more than a decade now - multicast setup would be there. I will confirm though.

mqjeff wrote:
Does the MFT talk about where it can and can't use multicast, or if it does?


Do you mean, MQMFT implementation at the client OR the product feature of MQMFT. ?
I could not find any documentation for MQMFT using multicast.

mqjeff wrote:
What is the purpose of using multicast?

Hmmm, well - the usecase does not warrant for multicasting. We are currently not looking for low-latency transactions. [The volume is also not that high]. Normal MQMFT agent - talking to queue solves the usecase.[We need not make MQMFT agent publish messages to topic].

So short answer is - No need of MQMFT for the project.
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vishBroker
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:22 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Centurion

Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 120

Please read : No need of MULTICAST for the project.
Ignore the typo in earlier reply where it says - No need of MQMFT for the project.
MQMFT is very much needed. But multicast is not needed.

I am just trying to get my thoughts organized - If we want to do multicast for MQMFT agent transfers - will it be possible?
Or MQMFT Agent - as a product/java application - does not need[rather can't use ] multicast ?

Kindly advice/correct.
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bruce2359
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:41 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Poobah

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 7729
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.

If by 'multicast' you mean MFT transferring the same file to multiple destinations, then http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSFKSJ_8.0.0/com.ibm.wmqfte.doc/start_new_transfer_cmd.htm
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mqjeff
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:09 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand Master

Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17059

Sorry, I meant "Does the MFT knowledge center talk about where it can and can't use multicast, or if it does? "

Multicast generally only works on the same subnet. In order to cross datacenter boundaries, you would likely have to have some kind of vlan spanning in place... So even though the network links have been in place for a decade or more, doesn't mean that multcast works across the link.

I'll trust Bruce's answer abut sending to more than one destination. I've not really used MFT.
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vishBroker
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:54 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Centurion

Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 120

bruce2359 wrote:
If by 'multicast' you mean MFT transferring the same file to multiple destinations, then http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSFKSJ_8.0.0/com.ibm.wmqfte.doc/start_new_transfer_cmd.htm


Thanks Bruce !
Just FYI - We also use IIB - which can again send files to multiple destinations.

But, that [sending files to multiple destinations] is not I am wondering about.

mqjeff wrote:
I meant "Does the MFT knowledge center talk about where it can and can't use multicast, or if it does? "

I did different types of searches - could not get any thing from knowledge center or developerworks.


mqjeff wrote:
Multicast generally only works on the same subnet. In order to cross datacenter boundaries, you would likely have to have some kind of vlan spanning in place... So even though the network links have been in place for a decade or more, doesn't mean that multcast works across the link.

True that - I agree.

The question they are asking is 'what are network prerequisites to use multicast'? [Router/switch and firewall level].
I asked them to check with network team.

From MQMFT standpoint - I wanted to check, if suppose network supports multicast - the internal communication that MQMFT does with peers - uses MULTICAST or not?

Thanks again for the inputs!!
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bruce2359
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:05 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Poobah

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 7729
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.

mqjeff wrote:
Multicast generally only works on the same subnet.

We're lacking precision and clarity on what the OP means by 'multicast.' In what context?

I searched google for 'mqmft multiple destinations'. If the OP has some other meaning, please post it here.
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vishBroker
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:51 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Centurion

Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 120

bruce2359 wrote:
mqjeff wrote:
Multicast generally only works on the same subnet.

We're lacking precision and clarity on what the OP means by 'multicast.' In what context?

I searched google for 'mqmft multiple destinations'. If the OP has some other meaning, please post it here.


Well, I meant the network multicast communication while talking to peers.

I am thinking about internals of MQMFT.

I am not particularly thinking about sending to multiple destinations. We can achieve it through ANT script as you provided or I can use IIB.

Anyhow, for the sake of argument - let's say I have to send it to multiple destination using MQMFT. Will the MQMFT agent use network 'multicast' - [IP multicast] ?

Let me know, if you need more details.
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bruce2359
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:40 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Poobah

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 7729
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.

Why your concern about multicast? Are for or against? Is there a requirement for or against? Are you a network specialist?
Please be precise.
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gbaddeley
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:02 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Padawan

Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 1620
Location: Melbourne, Australia

vishBroker wrote:
Well, I meant the network multicast communication while talking to peers.
I am thinking about internals of MQMFT.

I am not particularly thinking about sending to multiple destinations. We can achieve it through ANT script as you provided or I can use IIB.

Anyhow, for the sake of argument - let's say I have to send it to multiple destination using MQMFT. Will the MQMFT agent use network 'multicast' - [IP multicast] ?


I don't think MQMFT supports n/w multicast protocol.

MQMFT uses MQ messaging for its file data transport and transfer management. A MQMFT agent can connect directly to a local MQ qmgr, or MQ Client connection via TCP/IP socket protocol to local or remote qmgr.
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vishBroker
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:22 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Centurion

Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 120

bruce2359 wrote:
Why your concern about multicast? Are for or against? Is there a requirement for or against? Are you a network specialist?
Please be precise.

1. Client is asking - what needs to be done, if MQMFT supports multicast and hence trying to find out whether MQMFT supports it or not.

2. I am not for or against it.

3. I am not a network specialist; but I have done few things when I had setup multicast for Datapower SLM policies. How multicast works/how to configure for multicast.
Now, I know MQ is not DP - but conceptually multicast config is/should be similar.
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vishBroker
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:36 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Centurion

Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 120

gbaddeley wrote:
vishBroker wrote:
Well, I meant the network multicast communication while talking to peers.
I am thinking about internals of MQMFT.

I am not particularly thinking about sending to multiple destinations. We can achieve it through ANT script as you provided or I can use IIB.

Anyhow, for the sake of argument - let's say I have to send it to multiple destination using MQMFT. Will the MQMFT agent use network 'multicast' - [IP multicast] ?


I don't think MQMFT supports n/w multicast protocol.

MQMFT uses MQ messaging for its file data transport and transfer management. A MQMFT agent can connect directly to a local MQ qmgr, or MQ Client connection via TCP/IP socket protocol to local or remote qmgr.


Thanks Glenn!
Just curious - could you also provide your thoughts about below [I have put this in my original post].
+++
I tried to analyze it with my little knowledge and experience
1. MQ DOES support multicast
2. The MQ Multicast is used for low-latency messaging
[no-brainer so for]
3. MQMFT agent can publish a file to topic.[Alias queue with TargetType as TOPIC]
4. One can set up a TOPIC with MCAST(ENABLED) COMMINFO (someThingSomeThing)
5. So, if my MQMFT agent is configured to publish file to the multi-cast topic, I could say - MQMFT agent uses[can use] multicast while communicating with peers/QM.
+++

Would you say - if we create MQMFT agent as above[publishing to Topic] - it will still use normal TCP/IP socket protocol ?
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gbaddeley
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:57 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Padawan

Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 1620
Location: Melbourne, Australia

vishBroker wrote:
Thanks Glenn!
Just curious - could you also provide your thoughts about below [I have put this in my original post].
+++
I tried to analyze it with my little knowledge and experience
1. MQ DOES support multicast
2. The MQ Multicast is used for low-latency messaging
[no-brainer so for]
3. MQMFT agent can publish a file to topic.[Alias queue with TargetType as TOPIC]
4. One can set up a TOPIC with MCAST(ENABLED) COMMINFO (someThingSomeThing)
5. So, if my MQMFT agent is configured to publish file to the multi-cast topic, I could say - MQMFT agent uses[can use] multicast while communicating with peers/QM.
+++

Would you say - if we create MQMFT agent as above[publishing to Topic] - it will still use normal TCP/IP socket protocol ?


In this scenario, MQMFT is only aware of putting a message (containing the file) to a queue. If the agent is using MQ Client connection to qmgr, it goes via TCP/IP.

Behind the scenes, the qmgr resolves the put operation to a pub/sub topic, which has a multicasting delivery method. MQMFT plays no part in who receives the published message.

I haven't seen this implemented, so you should try it.
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Glenn
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vishBroker
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:01 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Centurion

Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 120

Thanks Glenn!

If I end up in implementing it, will share the findings and experience!

THanks all for the inputs.
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